Factory Oil Slightly Low?

[GrabberB]

Oil expands when hot. How does adding when hot help to figure out where it will end up when cold?

My friend, you are way overthinking this. Adding oil when warm only helps the oil drain down to the oil pan faster. You can certainly add small amounts when cold. If you do so on a cold engine you'll need to wait a lot longer than 15 minutes prior rechecking.

FYI - There is no way a "dipstick check" of oil capacity is going to allow for or be accurate enough to account for oil expansion. Accounting for oil expansion during an oil level check should never cross your mind. If you're going to analyze your car to this level on everything you'll never enjoy it.

If you want to see how little expansion occurs.
1. Take a new quart of oil and mark the full line with a sharpie.
2. Pour contents into a old pot.
3. Heat up on stove to approx. 200 degrees F.
4. Glove up and pour back into original container.
5. Note the difference in height. Will be very minimal.
6. Multiple the delta x 10 and that is the amount of expansion that occurs inside you engine.
7. Add a little to number 6 above to account for surface tension which will hold a small amount of oil in the pot that will not make it back to the quart of oil.

Point of number 1 - 7 above....You do not need to check your oil level in a scientific manner.

For goodness sake enjoy your new car!

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[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

My friend, you are way overthinking this. Adding oil when warm only helps the oil drain down to the oil pan faster. You can certainly add small amounts when cold. If you do so on a cold engine you'll need to wait a lot longer than 15 minutes prior rechecking.

FYI - There is no way a "dipstick check" of oil capacity is going to allow for or be accurate enough to account for oil expansion. Accounting for oil expansion during an oil level check should never cross your mind. If you're going to analyze your car to this level on everything you'll never enjoy it.

If you want to see how little expansion occurs.
1. Take a new quart of oil and mark the full line with a sharpie.
2. Pour contents into a old pot.
3. Heat up on stove to approx. 200 degrees F.
4. Glove up and pour back into original container.
5. Note the difference in height. Will be very minimal.
6. Multiple the delta x 10 and that is the amount of expansion that occurs inside you engine.
7. Add a little to number 6 above to account for surface tension which will hold a small amount of oil in the pot that will not make it back to the quart of oil.

Point of number 1 - 7 above....You do not need to check your oil level in a scientific manner.

For goodness sake enjoy your new car!

Will do lol. I’ll be reporting back to the thread with a hot and cold oil check on Friday. Thanks a bunch.

 

[MAT1955]

@TheGrabberBlueGT2024 ..... always check your engine oil when it is hot and on level ground. Fill until it is slightly below the high mark.

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

@TheGrabberBlueGT2024 ..... always check your engine oil when it is hot and on level ground. Fill until it is slightly below the high mark.

Everyone seems to have a different recommendation. I’m not sure why Ford has either listed. But I know I need to stick with one. Is there a reason hot is better?

 

[MAT1955]

@TheGrabberBlueGT2024 ..... we always changed the oil when hot with the engines we built-up as we were taught to do it this way by our grand father and father..... so we just got in the habit of doing so with all our vehicles from sleds, to boats, to cars ..... everything. Their opinion was that heating the engine to operating temperature brought internal engine components to spec and caused the oil to flow to the pan better for a truer result. We built a lot of automotive and marine race engines under their guidance. BTW I only use full synthetic oil. I have no particular favorite from Amsoil, Royal Purple, Kendall etc. etc. .... I use Motorcraft FULL synthetic as it has an excellent base stock with an excellent additive package. My 2024 GT seems to take almost 10 quarts. I wonder if some of the oil changes that show 9.5 quarts are changing cold oil and leaving some oil in the engine?

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

@TheGrabberBlueGT2024 ..... we always changed the oil when hot with the engines we built-up as we were taught to do it this way by our grand father and father..... so we just got in the habit of doing so with all our vehicles from sleds, to boats, to cars ..... everything. Their opinion was that heating the engine to operating temperature brought internal engine components to spec and caused the oil to flow to the pan better for a truer result. We built a lot of automotive and marine race engines under their guidance. BTW I only use full synthetic oil. I have no particular favorite from Amsoil, Royal Purple, Kendall etc. etc. .... I use Motorcraft FULL synthetic as it has an excellent base stock with an excellent additive package. My 2024 GT seems to take almost 10 quarts. I wonder if some of the oil changes that show 9.5 quarts are changing cold oil and leaving some oil in the engine?

Never thought about it like that. It would make sense. It’s all confusing even having two manuals one saying 9.5 the other saying 10 lol

 

[MAT1955]

@TheGrabberBlueGT2024 ..... yes different specs are confusing that's why my grand dad used to say the stick (dipstick) never lies. I would start with 9.5 quarts (oil hot) and add a bit if the stick showed it needed it. As I'm sure you know it is better to be a bit under than a bit over.

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

@TheGrabberBlueGT2024 ..... we always changed the oil when hot with the engines we built-up as we were taught to do it this way by our grand father and father..... so we just got in the habit of doing so with all our vehicles from sleds, to boats, to cars ..... everything. Their opinion was that heating the engine to operating temperature brought internal engine components to spec and caused the oil to flow to the pan better for a truer result. We built a lot of automotive and marine race engines under their guidance. BTW I only use full synthetic oil. I have no particular favorite from Amsoil, Royal Purple, Kendall etc. etc. .... I use Motorcraft FULL synthetic as it has an excellent base stock with an excellent additive package. My 2024 GT seems to take almost 10 quarts. I wonder if some of the oil changes that show 9.5 quarts are changing cold oil and leaving some oil in the engine?

@TheGrabberBlueGT2024 ..... yes different specs are confusing that's why my grand dad used to say the stick (dipstick) never lies. I would start with 9.5 quarts (oil hot) and add a bit if the stick showed it needed it. As I'm sure you know it is better to be a bit under than a bit over.

100%. I still have some time to go before my first oil change. Anxious to see what happens next. I hope your theory is correct

 

[DarkMatterGrey]

Everyone seems to have a different recommendation. I’m not sure why Ford has either listed. But I know I need to stick with one. Is there a reason hot is better?

I believe your first priority is to see if your engine is excessively consuming oil. That is a testable theory. The quickest way to know is to take what you currently have (400 miles, dipstick 1/3 way above lower mark) and replicate your driving conditions over the next week. Take everything else out of it, adding more oil, whether it’s hot or cold engine). To do that, drive it like you have been and measure cold and measure hot every day. Seems the easiest for your schedule is in the morning before you leave, check cold, then when you return at night check hot. Record the results and see if your oil level changes. I’d say wait a week to check, but if the testable theory is excessive oil consumption, you may go below the lower mark within a week.

You can restart the baseline by adding a half quart to get you to at least the middle between the high/low marks. I wouldn’t at this point, maybe if the oil hits or dips below the lower mark, which you should know within a week.

But whatever you do record all of your procedures and findings. I suspect nothing is wrong and you’re OK, but you need to hedge the downside scenario which is a notable excessive oil consumption problem, which could become a legal issue based upon your state’s lemon law. You need to be in a position to back that up with evidence as if this is the case you will be without your car for awhile and Ford and the dealership only need to do what the law in your state requires.

Note that changing your oil early not only restarts the baseline, but it also introduces other potential issues, like the infamous BBQ Tick, which happens shortly after an oil change. Let’s chase the problem in front of you first.

Also, if there isn’t excessive oil consumption, but only in the normal range, you’ll want to know and document that as well. Either way stick with Ford oil and Ford filters for now in case this isn’t as excessive, but still notable oil consumption. Don’t try to solve a potential problem by throwing dirtying factors at it, premature oil change, out of family brands (Amsoil, Ceratec, etc.). Prepare for a lawsuit and hope one isn’t needed.

That’s my recommendation.

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

I believe your first priority is to see if your engine is excessively consuming oil. That is a testable theory. The quickest way to know is to take what you currently have (400 miles, dipstick 1/3 way above lower mark) and replicate your driving conditions over the next week. Take everything else out of it, adding more oil, whether it’s hot or cold engine). To do that, drive it like you have been and measure cold and measure hot every day. Seems the easiest for your schedule is in the morning before you leave, check cold, then when you return at night check hot. Record the results and see if your oil level changes. I’d say wait a week to check, but if the testable theory is excessive oil consumption, you may go below the lower mark within a week.

You can restart the baseline by adding a half quart to get you to at least the middle between the high/low marks. I wouldn’t at this point, maybe if the oil hits or dips below the lower mark, which you should know within a week.

But whatever you do record all of your procedures and findings. I suspect nothing is wrong and you’re OK, but you need to hedge the downside scenario which is a notable excessive oil consumption problem, which could become a legal issue based upon your state’s lemon law. You need to be in a position to back that up with evidence as if this is the case you will be without your car for awhile and Ford and the dealership only need to do what the law in your state requires.

Note that changing your oil early not only restarts the baseline, but it also introduces other potential issues, like the infamous BBQ Tick, which happens shortly after an oil change. Let’s chase the problem in front of you first.

Also, if there isn’t excessive oil consumption, but only in the normal range, you’ll want to know and document that as well. Either way stick with Ford oil and Ford filters for now in case this isn’t as excessive, but still notable oil consumption. Don’t try to solve a potential problem by throwing dirtying factors at it, premature oil change, out of family brands (Amsoil, Ceratec, etc.). Prepare for a lawsuit and hope one isn’t needed.

That’s my recommendation.

Good read. It’s what I’ll do. I hear the lemon law process sucks.

 

[MAT1955]

@TheGrabberBlueGT2024 ..... I like what @DarkMatterGrey suggests. Don't add any new variables such as new oil, additives etc. to the investigation. Chart out your experience this will expose any losses - if you have no other signs such as a visible leak/drip or smoke out the pipes. You are, of course, bottoming out your dip stick by ensuring it is fully inserted and not hung-up on anything. To avoid the BBQ tic have your tech prefill your oil filter EVERY time the oil is changed before installing it. I also always use FULL synthetic. I do this and so far, knock on wood, I have avoided the BBQ tic.

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

@TheGrabberBlueGT2024 ..... I like what @DarkMatterGrey suggests. Don't add any new variables such as new oil, additives etc. to the investigation. Chart out your experience this will expose any losses - if you have no other signs such as a visible leak/drip or smoke out the pipes. You are, of course, bottoming out your dip stick by ensuring it is fully inserted and not hung-up on anything. To avoid the BBQ tic have your tech prefill your oil filter EVERY time the oil is changed before installing it. I also always use FULL synthetic. I do this and so far, knock on wood, I have avoided the BBQ tic.

Is it possible I’m just low from factory? If I start documenting daily for the next week and my level isn’t moved what happens next? Maybe the level was like that the entire time.

 

[MAT1955]

@TheGrabberBlueGT2024 , yes it is possible that you are low from the factory. It is also possible that the system "burped" some air and dropped the level. Great suggestions on the forum to fill it to normal level (I recommend when oil is hot - add to full..... slowly) then chart it. Look at valve covers - friend had new Ford Explorer 400HP ST - low oil - was faulty valve cover gasket. No big deal. Use a flashlight to look through the engine bay to the oil filter and below it onto the fiber board belly pan - could be as simple as a slight leak there that might now show up on the driveway or garage floor, again a simple fix. If you don't shoot a puff of smoke out the pipes on start up or after a few revs to say 4000 rpm (quick shots) you likely don't have valve stem seal issues......BUT ...... before losing sleep, do as others (like @DarkMatterGrey) has suggested and fill it to the full mark (hot) and chart it's levels for a week or so of normal driving. Let's see what that does before anyone starts to worry.

 

[TheGrabberBlueGT2024]

@TheGrabberBlueGT2024 , yes it is possible that you are low from the factory. It is also possible that the system "burped" some air and dropped the level. Great suggestions on the forum to fill it to normal level (I recommend when oil is hot - add to full..... slowly) then chart it. Look at valve covers - friend had new Ford Explorer 400HP ST - low oil - was faulty valve cover gasket. No big deal. Use a flashlight to look through the engine bay to the oil filter and below it onto the fiber board belly pan - could be as simple as a slight leak there that might now show up on the driveway or garage floor, again a simple fix. If you don't shoot a puff of smoke out the pipes on start up or after a few revs to say 4000 rpm (quick shots) you likely don't have valve stem seal issues......BUT ...... before losing sleep, do as others (like @DarkMatterGrey) has suggested and fill it to the full mark (hot) and chart it's levels for a week or so of normal driving. Let's see what that does before anyone starts to worry.

Are these motors fillled with the motorcraft blend?

 

[MAT1955]

@TheGrabberBlueGT2024 ....there has been so much controversy as to whether Ford uses some kind of special "break-in" oil or oil with additives for the factory fill. This speculation has been exacerbated by some owners getting a noticeable ticking noise, like the spark tick on a BBQ starter, after their FIRST oil fill leading to speculation that there had been "mystery" additives at the factory. I question this as this would mean there was an issue that Ford knew needed addressing and IF there was an issue why not just add the "mystery/special" additives to their normal Motorcraft oil? So I don't believe the "special factory oil/additives issue without some sort of proof. I think Ford uses a semi synthetic blend for their factory fill. I say that because unless you specify FULL synthetic for your free fills (I got three with my new Mustang purchase) or when you book an oil change at a Ford dealership - they will put in Motorcraft synthetic blend as their "normal" shop oil. I choose to up-grade to FULL synthetic for many reasons. Also, I have always, when installing an oil filter on anything, pre-filled it. I was taught by family engine builders pre-filling the oil filters helps prevent shock to the engine's internals. As well, in the "old days" non pre-filled oil filters were often damaged by being "hit" with a charge of oil from the oil pan after an oil change and could discharge filter media into the oil stream or fail to properly filter the oil. While modern (quality) oil filters are not really susceptible to this sort of damage, I still believe that pre-filling the oil filter is much kinder to the engine's internals and in the case of the Mustang's Coyote engine might ward-off the BBQ tick. I use Motorcraft FULL synthetic oil and Motorcraft oil filters and ALWAYS pre-fill the oil filter every time.

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