Some info about Ford

[roket]

i just wanted to share some information about Ford from the perspective of someone who works in service and was a service advisor for a little bit

Everyone but sales hates the mark-ups too
trust me when i say that basically everyone else in the dealership aside from the people in sales hates the mark-ups on vehicles too. service, parts, the technicians, pretty much everyone. if anyone even hints at their distaste towards their dislike of the mark-ups, they will probably get lectured by that sales personnel about how "important" mark-ups are

Salespeople can be more predatory than you think
i've lost track of the amount of times i've seen salespeople come up to an advisor and ask about a customer vehicle and ask for the customer contact information if they find out its in for something that could give an excuse to manipulate the customer into trading it in or buying a new vehicle

You are probably getting shorted on your trade-in
there are quite a few stingy used car managers that will lowball you on your trade-in and give some nonsense reasons as to why. if you make enough noise, you can probably get a bit more out of them, but some of them are just really stubborn. they will probably mention something about the "reconditioning", and that might be true, but some used car managers will deny any work on a vehicle going through recon unless it is strictly required or a matter of safety

Not all salespeople are bad people
from what i've seen, as long as you avoid the salespeople that are on the showroom, you should have a better time. those people are on the showroom for a reason, and they are usually the most insufferable to work with. not all of them are terrible, though. there are some salespeople that will actually care about you and how you feel about your new vehicle. treasure those ones, because they're kind of rare

Sales and service talk
this one is pretty self-explanatory, sales will inform service about customers, and vice versa, including how difficult or easy you were to deal with. some service advisors may even recommend different salespeople depending on how you treated them

Sometimes, our hands are tied
Ford gives us a bit of flexibility on what we can or cant do with warranty, but sometimes our hands are totally tied. sometimes we can have the tech word a story a certain way or turn a blind eye to a mod that may have contributed to the issue, but if Ford decides we overstepped and whatever work is not warranty, they will charge us back. customer attitude also affects how much we are even willing to bend things for you to begin with

Aftermarket warranty companies suck to work with
these guys are so painful to work with, regularly having hold times anywhere from 30 minutes to 3 or more hours, all to avoid actually paying out. plus, they have the most random and arbitrary restrictions on what is actually covered. i think the least painful to work with is Protective. i think the record for longest time on hold at my dealer is something like 9 or 10 hours

Ford takes warranty and recall stuff very, very seriously
dealers have a sort of "reputation" with Ford when it comes to warranty, with each of the levels having certain restrictions on what the dealers can do on their own. they are also very strict when it comes to warranty, and even more so when it comes to recalls. a tech that messes up a recall more than once or otherwise proves themselves unreliable can have their STARS id banned, essentially permanently preventing them from having anything to do with fixing Ford and Lincoln ever again

Ford is stupid about the surveys they send after services
if you've taken a vehicle into service, you probably got a survey afterwards. these surveys are incredibly important to service advisors because Ford has decided that anything that is a 3/5 or below is failing, 4/5 is neutral, and 5/5 is good. the whole thing is ripe for abuse, and there have been times where i have seen an advisor with only 5/5 surveys all month get ruined by one 3/5. basically, to Ford, 1-3 is horrible, 4 is acceptable, and 5 is okay. lots of dealers also have bonuses and penalties apply depending on the final score for the month, too, with them being either a couple hundred added to or removed from their final pay

Rental and loaner coverage is pretty random
when Ford puts out a recall, they mention whether or not there is loaner or rental coverage for this recall, but it seems like Ford more or less randomly decides what does and does not get coverage. they are always on the stingy side, too. you will often see major, multi-day to complete recalls with no coverage, but never see a minor recall with coverage. if you ever have to pay for your own rental after you drop a vehicle off for a recall, this is probably why

E-Transits were a total failure in the US
my dealer barely got any to begin with, and we just put two into mobile service work not too long ago. if i remember right, Ford had so many incentives on putting the E-Transits into mobile service that we actually came out on top after everything, including equipment and wraps. that is just how badly E-Transits did, Ford had to, in some cases, basically pay dealers to use them

Ford tracks literally anything you do in their systems
every pinpoint test, every workshop manual entry, every little thing in Ford's systems is tracked to the point where i am sure they would not hesitate to track what the user is even thinking about doing if they could. it's a bit creepy, but needed, because they use that feature to audit warranty things if needed. we can also see this to a degree. if someone in our dealership does something in the system, we can see stuff like their username, but we have no details for anyone outside our dealer

We can see previous warranty work, where it was done, and mileage
attached to every single VIN is a log of all warranty work performed on the vehicle, as well as where it was done, the mileage, and even the technician story

Techs and advisors can void your warranty
this is not something i've seen actually done, but technicians, service advisors, and obviously service managers, can tell Ford to void your warranty and have their system say as much. i dont know what the requirements are, but i imagine given how serious this is, they are quite high

Ford listens to you more than to us sometimes
Ford is more willing to listen and take on feedback from you, the customer, than they are from us, the people working for them. this is why they added the "record feedback" button into the newer vehicles, but we dont have one at our desk

Ford GT parts are quite a process
this will also probably apply to the GTD as well. Ford has an intricate and detailed process to get any sort of parts for a Ford GT, including requiring documentation about customer ownership, proof of the vehicle being at the shop, details about why the vehicle needs these parts, and i've heard that most, if not all, parts are sent back to Ford to prevent their distribution. if Ford suspects something is up, they will likely deny the parts request. this goes for even things as little as the black painted version of the Mustang valve stem that the GT uses (i know this one from personal experience)

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[Alan Applegate]

None of this surprises me. I further suspect similar issues are afoot with the other major manufacturers, especially Honda! Which, by the way, is the reason I did not buy a Type R!

Closer to home, I have an issue with my dealer with respect to a four-wheel alignment issue. The steering wheel was off by about 6° to the left, and the handling was suspect as well. They did realign it, but I had to take it back a second time. The tilt is still about 3°, and it bugs the heck out of me. Apparently, Ford won't cover this under warranty a second time which explains why the dealer is being reluctant in doing the mess over again. I wonder what would happen if I used the "Feedback" selection on the dash?

 

[Skye]

My experience over time with Toyota mirrors many of the comments of Ford.

The last few years in-particular, quality in service has degraded, while pricing has markedly increased. So much so I believe my most previous service with Toyota will be my last.

For general maintenance items, I can continue to do those myself. For more complicated issues, needing a lift, specialized tools or detailed insight, I'll begin going to 3rd party providers in my area.

Specific to the comments above:

- Sales and Mark-Ups. I had a generally good experience going through Internet Sales with the Ford dealer. I'll probably never walk onto a showroom again. Industry-wide, dealer attempts towards customers to be up-sold on a wide range of often unnecessary products and services seems to have gotten worse. And that's disappointing

- Trades. I expect to receive wholesale, at best, no matter where I go. If the market is hot, maybe a bit more. Selling a vehicle is still easy in my area. A private sale is near-effortless and often bring full price

- Service. Same. It depends who you get. There are some good Service Advisors out there. And some great techs. Dealing with customers myself helps frame the conversation when having to drop off a vehicle.

- Surveys. Yes. Ford is serious about their completion and the ratings. While I was aware of the after-purchase survey, I hadn't received one. A few weeks passed and I began getting e-mails from the Ford regional rep directly. They corrected their addressing issue and it was later completed

- Warranty. While Ford might be serious about warranty work in the field, and many comments here and 6G reflect that, I don't feel they are serious about the topic as a company. Ford's been wrestling with general warranty problems for years. Whatever commitments are published, they are no better than before. In many ways, worse

- GT. I can see that. To prevent some black market in GT parts popping up. Or someone making 3rd party items

 

[Aegean]

Very good information. We all understand that dealerships are businesses with a lot of expenses and they need to make some money to survive and get some profit. These huge lots and buildings and several employees need to be paid from your transactions sales and service.

However, as consumers we also like to keep our cost low. Sales price is usually advertised and doing some online shopping would give us a fair deal.

Trade in is always a bad idea. It is very easy to sell any car as a private sale for the right price. Just set a reasonable price and in less than 2 weekends you will definitely sell your car and get your money. 99% of used car buyers are legit and easy to work with contrary to common belief that it is a big risk. You might have to deal your lien but there are firms for a small fee that do that transaction protecting buyer and seller. Eg Keysavvy.

Finally all these dealer markups can be politely waived and keep your cost to bare minimum.

 

[roadpilot]

All good info, and most already known.

But neither the dealership nor Ford can not "void your warranty" except for a few very rare situations.

They can deny a specific claim based on evidence that you did or did not do something that was the direct cause of the failure of an otherwise covered part, but they do not simply void your entire warranty.

The only way an entire car warranty can be voided is for things like altering the odometer, racing/misuse of the vehicle, environmental damages, or if the vehicle is salvaged by the insurance company.

 

[MAGS1]

Very good information. We all understand that dealerships are businesses with a lot of expenses and they need to make some money to survive and get some profit. These huge lots and buildings and several employees need to be paid from your transactions sales and service.

However, as consumers we also like to keep our cost low. Sales price is usually advertised and doing some online shopping would give us a fair deal.

Trade in is always a bad idea. It is very easy to sell any car as a private sale for the right price. Just set a reasonable price and in less than 2 weekends you will definitely sell your car and get your money. 99% of used car buyers are legit and easy to work with contrary to common belief that it is a big risk. You might have to deal your lien but there are firms for a small fee that do that transaction protecting buyer and seller. Eg Keysavvy.

Finally all these dealer markups can be politely waived and keep your cost to bare minimum.

I will disagree that trading in is always a bad idea. Depending on the state you live in, there are real sales tax benefits to trading in. In a lot of cases that sales tax will wipe out whatever extra amount you made selling the car privately. Both options should be weighed before selling a car.

 

[roadpilot]

In a lot of cases that sales tax will wipe out whatever extra amount you made selling the car privately.

Depends upon state law. In MI, we get a partial credit based on the numbers, but there's a cap. My private sale vs trade in gain has always been more than this sales tax credit.

 

[Aegean]

I will disagree that trading in is always a bad idea. Depending on the state you live in, there are real sales tax benefits to trading in. In a lot of cases that sales tax will wipe out whatever extra amount you made selling the car privately. Both options should be weighed before selling a car.

Yes if this cost saving is a consideration in some States. Unfortunately in Virginia we pay full sales tax 4.15% every time we buy a car without any trade in value deductions.

 

[MAGS1]

Depends upon state law. In MI, we get a partial credit based on the numbers, but there's a cap. My private sale vs trade in gain has always been more than this sales tax credit.

Like I said, it depends on the state you’re in. Here in IL it typically makes more sense to trade in. Really depends on the difference in trade in price and what you can get private sale. There are times when private sale does make sense here. But this lovely state gets plenty of my tax dollars, I try to avoid giving them anymore than necessary whenever possible.

 

[roadpilot]

Like I said, it depends on the state you’re in. Here in IL it typically makes more sense to trade in. Really depends on the difference in trade in price and what you can get private sale. There are times when private sale does make sense here. But this lovely state gets plenty of my tax dollars, I try to avoid giving them anymore than necessary whenever possible.

I'm in Michigan. We get as hosed as you do in Illinois.

 

[Wiley Marmot]

Great advice; thanks to all!

PS: You "could have" told me that "before" I bought my GT.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

@roket Thank you so much for your perspective as a service worker for Ford. I do have a question though...when you say "as long as you avoid the salesperson that are in the showroom", are you referring to the salespeople that aren't at their desks or kiosks and are almost always either standing just outside the doors of the dealership or inside next to the front desk?

I may have more questions later, but I think for now this one will suffice. Thanks again regardless if you have any further input on my question or not!

 

[roket]

All good info, and most already known.

But neither the dealership nor Ford can not "void your warranty" except for a few very rare situations.

They can deny a specific claim based on evidence that you did or did not do something that was the direct cause of the failure of an otherwise covered part, but they do not simply void your entire warranty.

The only way an entire car warranty can be voided is for things like altering the odometer, racing/misuse of the vehicle, environmental damages, or if the vehicle is salvaged by the insurance company.

i've heard some co-workers say that they can. its possible they meant that Ford will add a flag to the VIN about the warranty, though

@roket Thank you so much for your perspective as a service worker for Ford. I do have a question though...when you say "as long as you avoid the salesperson that are in the showroom", are you referring to the salespeople that aren't at their desks or kiosks and are almost always either standing just outside the doors of the dealership or inside next to the front desk?

I may have more questions later, but I think for now this one will suffice. Thanks again regardless if you have any further input on my question or not!

i mean the ones whose desks are in the showroom, they tend to be more unpleasant to work with than the ones who are in the internet sales office or similar. however, the ones that stand in front of the doors are usually the worst ones. they just stand there, usually in groups, and actively go after people, even if they are walking by to go to the service side.

also, you can ask as many questions as you want, i'll answer them to the best of my abilities if i can

 

[roket]

Like I said, it depends on the state you’re in. Here in IL it typically makes more sense to trade in. Really depends on the difference in trade in price and what you can get private sale. There are times when private sale does make sense here. But this lovely state gets plenty of my tax dollars, I try to avoid giving them anymore than necessary whenever possible.

here in AZ you get a neat little deal for trading in. the tax is essentially from the view of new vehicle price minus trade in value. so, if you buy a $60k vehicle, but trade something in for $35k, you will only have to pay the tax of the remaining $25k. i dunno if this is a standard thing across the US

 

[dusman59]

No sales tax on used vehicles from private sellers here in AZ. Also driver license are good for many years and do not need to be renewed every year.

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