S650 steering and handling is night and day difference compared to S550 Mustang says Chief Engineer Ed Krenz

[TTown]

The base GT handless horribly - downright scary the way it bounce and flops around just driving with some quickness on some twisty roads. Surely Ford can do better this time around.

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[Dave2013M3]

The steering in the 350 and 500 might as well be from a different car. I would legitimately put $1000 down on a bet that someone blindfolded and ear plugged would not be able to guess that they are even remotely the same chassis based on steering alone. Had both a GT PP and GT350.

That's what I read as well.

 

[young at heart]

The base GT handless horribly - downright scary the way it bounce and flops around just driving with some quickness on some twisty roads. Surely Ford can do better this time around.

When I read stuff like this I just shake my head and wonder if it’s an exercise in hyperbole or maybe just a parallel universe to the one I live in. “Handles horribly”? Come on… I just returned from a 70 mile 2 lane mountain road drive in my ‘22 “base GT” with around 800 miles on the clock, base suspension and P Zeros. I drove the car as aggressively as I could without either running over somebody or going to jail and it handled beautifully. Couldn’t ask for better behavior or more competency. I’m by no stretch a trained race driver but on real roads you can only do so much regardless of your skill.

Maybe I just need to double down on my testosterone injections so I can better grasp how bad this car is.

 

[OppoLock]

When I read stuff like this I just shake my head and wonder if it’s an exercise in hyperbole or maybe just a parallel universe to the one I live in. “Handles horribly”? Come on… I just returned from a 70 mile 2 lane mountain road drive in my ‘22 “base GT” with around 800 miles on the clock, base suspension and P Zeros. I drove the car as aggressively as I could without either running over somebody or going to jail and it handled beautifully. Couldn’t ask for better behavior or more competency. I’m by no stretch a trained race driver but on real roads you can only do so much regardless of your skill.

Maybe I just need to double down on my testosterone injections so I can better grasp how bad this car is.

Watch the savagegeese video on the GT500; man’s overdosed on T-levels




Also on a serious note, there’s nothing “wrong” with the S550 if you look at it from a grand touring perspective, but it falls apart when you push past 7/10ths which is about a reasonable maximum level for responsible, spirited driving. For those of us that are suffering from testosterone overdose and like to argue like armchair race cars (me), it leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[TTown]

When I read stuff like this I just shake my head and wonder if it’s an exercise in hyperbole or maybe just a parallel universe to the one I live in. “Handles horribly”? Come on… I just returned from a 70 mile 2 lane mountain road drive in my ‘22 “base GT” with around 800 miles on the clock, base suspension and P Zeros. I drove the car as aggressively as I could without either running over somebody or going to jail and it handled beautifully. Couldn’t ask for better behavior or more competency. I’m by no stretch a trained race driver but on real roads you can only do so much regardless of your skill.

Maybe I just need to double down on my testosterone injections so I can better grasp how bad this car is.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. T levels are within the range of normal for my age.

 

[OppoLock]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. T levels are within the range of normal for my age.

I got no nuts left, side effect of owning two S550s

 

[Howitzer]

You're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree. T levels are within the range of normal for my age.

I agree with you, as someone who's modified the base car quite a lot. Base GT handles kinda poor and really bad in comparison to what the car is actually capable of. Especially with those tiny width tires they come with. Do they still come with the laughably small 235's on the 2022s? Tires and suspension was the first thing I HAD to change. Upgrading the suspension and tires completely transforms the car.

If you're looking to mod though...the base car is a decent value at least.

 

[TTown]

I got no nuts left, side effect of owning two S550s

Well that's not good.

 

[young at heart]

I agree with you, as someone who's modified the base car quite a lot. Base GT handles kinda poor and really bad in comparison to what the car is actually capable of. Especially with those tiny width tires they come with. Do they still come with the laughably small 235's on the 2022s? Tires and suspension was the first thing I HAD to change. Upgrading the suspension and tires completely transforms the car.

If you're looking to mod though...the base car is a decent value at least.

Mine has the Black Accent Package so it came with the 19x8.5 wheels with 255s. The dealer had them set at 37# and I liked it so I left them there. Maybe all that matters, IDK?

I just know it handles great, to the extent it can be driven where I roll it.

 

[JuicySmollet]

Mine has the Black Accent Package so it came with the 19x8.5 wheels with 255s. The dealer had them set at 37# and I liked it so I left them there. Maybe all that matters, IDK?

I just know it handles great, to the extent it can be driven where I roll it.

Mine were overinflated from the dealer, had to drop from 40 to 30.

 

[Hack]

What about the suspension and how the car handles. Will it handle as well or better than the dying Camaro?

If you put similar tires and similar stiffness suspension on the two cars, they are very similar. Camaro 1LE was faster until Ford put good tires on the Mustang. The original GT350 (non R) had 300 tw tires whereas the 1LE always had 200 tread wear tires.

this is really important. The Camaro outhandled the prior ecoboost and GT. Even pp2 couldn’t stand up to 1le.

and that’s just wrong.

the s650 needs to at the very least beat the 6g 1le SS and base. Otherwise that’s just embarrassing.

I agree that the base Mustang doesn't handle well, but the base is an option for people who take it easy in their cars and want a soft ride.

The Camaro is going away because not enough people bought one. If you liked it so much you should have put your money on it. I'd rather swap suspension than have the car completely go away because the people who want soft suspension refused to buy one.

Just to throw in some numbers from C&Ds lightning lap:

2021 Ford Mustang Mach 1 HP (MT), 2:51.4
2016 Ford Mustang Shelby GT350R (MT), 2:51.8
2018 Ford Mustang GT Performance Package Level 2 (MT), 2:53.8
2017 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE (MT), 2:54.8

Ford pulled about on par with the PP2, but the Mach 1 with Handling package (and not the slow european model) is a far faster track car than the SS 1LE, even outperfoming the GT350R. I would expect the Dark Horse with Handling package to even get 1-2 seconds faster in this comparison which would actually be a really competitive track car for the price.

But I really hope for handling improvements for the base GTs. The base GTs definitely don't feel as agile and good in corners as the base Camaro SS models.

Good post. It makes my point of how much faster the Mustang got when Ford put stickier tires on it.

Yes the base GT is a step softer than the base SS was. Like I said, it might be a good thing for the longevity of the platform.

When I read stuff like this I just shake my head and wonder if it’s an exercise in hyperbole or maybe just a parallel universe to the one I live in. “Handles horribly”? Come on… I just returned from a 70 mile 2 lane mountain road drive in my ‘22 “base GT” with around 800 miles on the clock, base suspension and P Zeros. I drove the car as aggressively as I could without either running over somebody or going to jail and it handled beautifully. Couldn’t ask for better behavior or more competency. I’m by no stretch a trained race driver but on real roads you can only do so much regardless of your skill.

Maybe I just need to double down on my testosterone injections so I can better grasp how bad this car is.

How often do you go to the road course with your car? I would say even the PP1 suspension was FAAAR too soft and left the car flopping around horribly. But I'm comparing to a GT350, which to me had nearly perfect suspension firmness. If you ever drive a Porsche, or a GR86, you will be shocked at how much better the body control is. Even older 'vettes like my C5 Z06 had very compliant suspension plus much better body control.

My current Mustang has the FP track handling kit on it, and the body control is a little marginal on track. That suspension is also softer than the stock suspension on my GR86. Ford really intends the Mustang to be a comfy Grand Tourer, and their suspension choices reflect that.

It's partially a side effect of the Mustang being really heavy and having a high center of gravity, but that's just the way the car is designed.

Mine has the Black Accent Package
SNIP

That has to add at least 30 HP.

 

[9secondko]

Model for model guys. GT vs. SS. PP VS 1LE. Ecoboost vs whatever the base Camaro is.
No cherry picking.

 

[9secondko]

I agree that the base Mustang doesn't handle well, but the base is an option for people who take it easy in their cars and want a soft ride.

The Camaro is going away because not enough people bought one. If you liked it so much you should have put your money on it. I'd rather swap suspension than have the car completely go away because the people who want soft suspension refused to buy one.

Learn to read. Nowhere did I say I like it better or want one.

I insinuated the the s650 better significantly outperform it in handling (not to mention accel and speed)model for model, package for package.

next you’ll be posting conparisons between Mach 1 and SS…

 

[Hack]

Learn to read. Nowhere did I say I like it better or want one.

I insinuated the the s650 better significantly outperform it in handling (not to mention accel and speed)model for model, package for package.

next you’ll be posting conparisons between Mach 1 and SS…

If you don't like better handling why do you care whether the base Mustang handles better than a Camaro? I do agree with you that it would be nice to get better handling for your money on the base Mustang, but probably if Ford put better equipment on the car they would charge more. So unless Ford just happens to build exactly what you want, you will probably end up needing to swap suspension parts anyway.

I can post a "conparison" if you would like.

 

[roket]

i hope that while Ford is putting in a quicker steering ratio, they give the wheels more room to actually turn, i really dont like being restricted to 3-lane highways if i need to do a U-turn

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