S650 2023 Mustang Chief Engineer / Program Director is Michael Celetino

[Bikeman315]

I have a major bone to pick with the name Warthog, because all I can think of is some ugly animal or Pumbaa from Lion King.

I can only wonder which good ol' boy came up with such a classless name, that might polarize people, other than maybe Jim himself?

Excuse me!

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[JPC]

when does the HYPE machine start on the S650 Mustang?
Let me start
....best Mustang ever (never driven)
......fixes ALL the (unreported) problems of the S550
........more power than S550 weight...tba
...........largest Mustang logo EVER
..............most advanced Mustang ever
...................the brightest car beside the track

 

[Chris Meyers]

All I want to add is that they should go back to retro styling. The new jellybean is as un-mustang as hell (and I own a 15). The 05 series was close to perfect as far as styling. If the new Bronco is any indication hopefully they realize the classic lines look far better.

 

[Twin Turbo]

As much as I love the S197's retro styling that was the only retro-stang we had. Back in '65, the Mustang was a thoroughly modern design, taking cues from Europe's finest. Which is pretty much what the S550 did.

 

[Varanjar]

All I want to add is that they should go back to retro styling.

Yes - they should make it look like a '93 Cobra

 

[9secondko]

CD6 is not a "CUV" or "SUV", it's a flexible platform that was designed to be used for a variety or purposes. It's Ford's version of the Alpha or FM platforms, both very successful platforms that enabled sports cars that would not have existed otherwise (Camaro and Z) while hosting far higher volume cars and SUVs that are state of the art, generate far higher profits, enabling the use and continued development of the platforms for the lower volume cars.
In the FM case, the 350Z/370Z and the upcoming new Z are the result (and the GT-R), while the highly successful G35/G37/G50/G60 share the platform, engines, big brakes, and now the all-new twin turbo 3.0 V-6.
In the Alpha case, the Camaro solely owes it's existence to Alpha, which supplied a state-of-the-platform that is superior to S550 (and lighter) while supplying a wide variety of engine, transmission and brakes, and also yielding the ATS-V and CTS-V.
The FM and Alpha platforms owed nothing to previous designs, and neither does CD6. They were clean-sheet, which is very rare in this industry.
And the fact that the CD6 first yielded the Explorer and Aviator is a very good thing because those are high volume and high margin platforms. It's unfortunate that the Lincoln sedan was cancelled but that's the existing market reality. And the fact that CD6 was designed for longer/shorter, wider/narrower variants (like any modern platform) means the resulting S750 Mustang can be the same size it is now or even smaller - but also lighter and more structurally up to date. So the Explorer/Aviator pays the bill for a sophisticated chassis that the Mustang would never have been given in any reality. The S750 will have a highly aluminum intensive structure and suspension, front SLA (thanks Aviator), and a rear suspension that is architecturally similar to the current and very successful suspension. Without CD6, the Mustang would have been relegated again to the current S550/650 platform, which is simply an evolved S197, which itself was a de-volved and dumbed-down DEW-98. It's currently after all these hacks and years an orphan platform that has just gotten heavier, cannot support hybridization without-less-than-optimal hacks, and which cannot go any further in this reality. I may be wrong, and we'll see, but I believe that S650 is just an update to S550.
The Mach-E is a bold move, and Dave Pericak's explanation of how he came to accept it and indeed embrace it is the best. He is a hero who has done great work for us, unprecedented work, with lots more coming. He is also the person responsible for the Mach-E 1400 (a phenomenal drivetrain, one that is impossible with ICE) and also the Mustang Lithium (another Mustang that is impossible with ICE). Neither are production or even prototypes (despite how they are labelled), both are experiments, neither are something that we'll be able to buy in that form - but they are milestones in the very long term development of a purely electric 2-door Mustang. That is post-S750 at least, maybe even longer out. But both show the all-around superiority of their electric powertrains, both enable a Mustang sports car to exist in 15 years from now, one that will leave the current car as obsolete as the FOX is to the S550, and one that will again be able to be sold worldwide. That's the key here, it was a critical key in the financial success of the S550, especially in countries which have outlawing ICE drivetrains (coming as soon as 2030 in many countries). Like everything else Ford is doing, Ford can either be at the leading edge around the world, or it can be left behind technologically.
Not everybody likes Hackett... I think his initial focus on all this "self driving autonomy" and city "connected architecture" - were presented very poorly and even naively. Those are technologies every manufacturer is developing, Ford had to come up to speed, but they are not the leading technologies in the industry yet. The leading technology is electrification and it's accelerating worldwide. Ford is determined to be a leader here, they have to be, but they dlo not have the ability to be *the* leader (not with all of their baggage and their legacy overhead, and not when Tesla is 5-10 years ahead in every way). So Ford had to move faster to catch up and be in a leading position and he and his team recognized that. You don't even see the other stuff mentioned anymore, although the new F-150 has a small advancement in autonomy (well behind GM and Nissan) and the Mustang Mach-E supposedly will have some element of it "later". Instead it's hybrids as a bridging solution to full electric in a 10-15 year plan. Ford knows how to build a good hybrid, and Ford is learning how to build a good electric. The Mach-E is first out of the gate, it's not at all perfect, the battery technology is not state-of-the art and the range is already dated, but it's a very very necessary first step. It's a bold move making it part of the Mustang family, but it's also an investment in the very long term future of the Mustang.
And kudos for Ford for the also all-new C2 platform, which has given us the excellent Focus ST (unfortunately not imported here), the Kuga/Escape/Corsair (all significant improvements over their predecessors, and all selling well) the upcoming Bronco Sport and Bronco Maverick, and the next level of hybrids. C2 is another platform which adapts widely in use and size, and we will see further variants including apparently a Mondeo/Fusion replacement as a slightly larger and longer "Focus Active" type vehicle that will compete with the extremely successful Subaru Outback. That's a very hot product for Subaru, maybe the only reason they exist in any size at all, and Ford can play well there IF they execute well. The Focus Active was supposed to compete here, but it's too small for the North American market and nobody wants it imported from China (a prescient move considering how that government is finally being exposed).
These new platforms are terrific, let's just hope that Ford has the personnel and drive to make them into the competitors and volume they need to be. Dave Pericak, Raj Nair and Joe Hinrichs (who was a real class act in the industry, and who was treated very shabbily by Hackett) together as a team made the S550 the unprecedented success that it has been. We owe them a lot, they made a dull and out-dated predessor with little promise into a world-class sports car and they did it with a carefully calculated strategy and very limited budget budget. And while unfortunately the CD6-based Mustang will be delayed, again likely due to the huge investment on longer term technologies and programs, the S650 will hopefully rectify some of the shortcomings of the current Mustang, introduce a necessary hybrid, and demonstrate that hybrids can be fun too. And because S650 is almost certainly built on the same bones underneath as S550 (not that Ford will admit it when it comes out), we'll certainly see Shelby and Mach-1 variants very quickly because they will be easier to do over the familiar base. Same for the aftermarket which may even find that most of their parts already fit and immediately work.
(yes, I am mixing platform and program names for convenience)

S650 was originally a mustang sports car platform. Bred for performance.

The Musatang was deemed to be so significant that it warranted its own killer platform.

The s650 was to show us what that meant.

Then we got Hackett.

The new 650 Kept the name to smooth over they broken promise and the fact that the real s650 was killed off. Aborted.

It’s a cuv platform that you can make a car with. Plain and simple.

Ford is an all truck+suv company now, save Mustang. Oh wait, its already an suv too...

The mustang no longer has its own platform. It wont be smaller, lighter, etc.
‘
The s650 is shoehorning the cuv into a car. Nothing like the alpha from GM, nut you effort is appreciated.

Look, I’m as sad about it as anyone and trying be to Find the bright side.

But pretending it’s isnt so isnt helping anyone.

 

[9secondko]

Ford is in a really crucial couple of months here...
The Mach-E can be a big hit... IF it's launched as promised (notice how many press statements have been made about that), IF it drives well, IF it has the battery range (which is does not). And it's limited by battery supplies to only 50k units in the first year - pitiful. How many of us would take a Mach-E GT over a Tesla 3/Y with the performance option? None because that Tesla blows away supercars and is 5-10 years ahead of Ford. Maybe a few true blue Ford fans because the Mach-E acceleration is only a few tenths in 0-60 from the GT500.
The Bronco Sport has a border problem outlined in today's newspapers. Nice job of engineering here on the already excellent platform, and especially in that optional rear diff. Very serious work there.
The Bronco can be huge... and clearly some very serious work was done across the board. It has to launch and be delivered without a single hitch. It's a very nice job, and also likely doesn't have the absurd crash rollover issue the Jeep has (so well demonstrated in the recent NHTSA video). That alone is enough reason to buy it over the Jeep, but there are also dozens of other reasons.
The F-150 is a masterpiece... and that team knows how to deliver it. And there are still spy pics of s shortened F-150 mule with Raptor gear and coil spring rear suspension... whatever that is. Maybe a "big" Bronco. If true, then a spring announcement is likely... although how does this get reconciled with the F-150 Raptor?
So Ford is on a roll... except the stock which hasn't even cleared the $mid-6 range. Somebody might have been smart to buy a pile when it hit absolute rock bottom a little while ago... and perhaps bet on $9 in their plan. Which after some successful launches and deliveries and you might be fortunate to see. A small profit could be made here.

The Mach e is a slap in the face.

Hi-po cool suv with its own badge And mustangesque styling? Heck yeah!

Suv call mustang?

Heck no!

It’s as simple as that.

 

[9secondko]

Let's give the new guy a chance. Sure, he may have only been involved in FWD application on his resume, but who's to say he's not a Mustang enthusiast and/or has knowledge of what makes a good RWD platform? Besides, its more Tom Barnes that will be responsible for how it drives and it's Mr Barnes' job to oversee and implement the engineers plans. If Mr Celetino doesn't have experience of RWD platforms, it may make convincing him of some decisions a little tougher, but if he's a good manager he'll listen to his experts working for him.

Besides, with S650 being heavily based on S550, I see this as more polishing the existing platform, rather than starting from new, so there will be less need for Mr Celetino to have that specific RWD experience.

Everything in life is a compromise, and a new generation of Mustang is no exception. The trick is to create the best with what you're given and, so far, I think the various members of Team Mustang have done a stand up job. I have no reason to doubt the team working on S650

Turbo,

You are always on the bright side. That’s great. And needed.

But man - would you hire a guy who works on passenger planes to lead work on your Raptor fighter jet?

That’s the situation here.

And it seems that Hackett’s Ford is looking to redefine what Mustang is in the future. Not sure that’s a great thing.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Biggus Dickus]

All I ask for is a V8 with a 6 speed manual. Give me that and I'll be good.

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

If I get a nicely designed Mustang with a good engine and transmission , I will be good with that.

 

[Nexus]

S650 was originally a mustang sports car platform. Bred for performance.

The Musatang was deemed to be so significant that it warranted its own killer platform.

The s650 was to show us what that meant.

The new 650 Kept the name to smooth over they broken promise and the fact that the real s650 was killed off. Aborted.

S650 is not the platform of the car.
The program name (S650) would not change and it's not there to smooth over anything.
It sounds like the decision was made to continue to use the same or slightly altered current platform instead of moving to the originally intended one for that program.

Keep in mind the D2C (platform) derived from a cheaper version of Dew98, a Lincoln sedan platform.
So Mustang got its own cheaper platform that was made from a 'better' more expensive platform which eventually became the cars we are seeing today. Let that sink in for a minute or 2.

Just because the platform is made is being utilized for a specific type of vehicle now, doesn't mean it won't be better than the outgoing platform.

If it wasn't better and didn't have performance benefits for what it costs to implement, they wouldn't be doing it.
They'd be sticking with the currently used platform for the foreseeable future projects and continuing to add things to it without throwing more money into it, as its probably paid itself off at this point.

 

[Bikeman315]

But man - would you hire a guy who works on passenger planes to lead work on your Raptor fighter jet?

The key word in your sentence is “lead”. A good leader will learn from his team. And that is what makes a better product.

And the answer to the question is absolutely.

 

[BlownGP]

All I want to add is that they should go back to retro styling. The new jellybean is as un-mustang as hell (and I own a 15). The 05 series was close to perfect as far as styling. If the new Bronco is any indication hopefully they realize the classic lines look far better.

EEEEWWWWWWW

The 05s are so ugly to me. I understand it's retro but god I hate them.

I really care less about the next gen Mustang, because it's probably going to be a hybird or all electric. If there is a V8, it might peak my interest but I still dont see it being better than a S550.


With that said.. 2010 to 2020 will probably go down as the best era of performance cars ever.

 

[Twin Turbo]

I really care less about the next gen Mustang, because it's probably going to be a hybird or all electric. If there is a V8, it might peak my interest but I still dont see it being better than a S550.

If S650 is heavily based on S550, and still features a n/a V8 engine (I'm pretty sure the hybrid will only be an option in the US and the V8 will still be available) and I'm confident it's going to be a better car than the S550. Looks will be subjective, but as a driving machine, it will be an improvement over the current car, just as S550 was over the S197.

 

[IPOGT]

EEEEWWWWWWW

The 05s are so ugly to me. I understand it's retro but god I hate them.

I really care less about the next gen Mustang, because it's probably going to be a hybird or all electric. If there is a V8, it might peak my interest but I still dont see it being better than a S550.


With that said.. 2010 to 2020 will probably go down as the best era of performance cars ever.

One can only dream of a 1968 fastback lookalike. My favorite of all. I do see quite a bit of that in the S550 15-17 though.

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