"Mach 4" 4-Door Mustang + Off-Road Baja Mustang models previewed at Ford dealers meeting!

[Radiant]

probably a good portion of the reason it’s not selling despite being an suv.

US Sales, Jan 1 - Jul 31, 2024 (source - Good Car Bad Car)

Mach-E: 26,826
Mustang: 30,653

It's freaking wild to me how people can seriously thing a V8 powered performance sedan will tarnish the mustangs heritage when you had things like the '71-73 land barge, or pinto based mustang 2.

I'm more bothered that it ignores the actual state of Flat Rock Assembly Plant. Unless people want the random 4+ week downtimes to continue, it needs to build more cars. If market research says a pony badge will sell sedans, print as many My Little Mustang emblems as the factory can print.

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[DeluxeStang]

The issue people need to realize with the "A proper mustang needs to be blank" argument, is that would kill the mustang, and all other sports coupes out there. Think about it, how many enthusiasts think the only "proper" mustangs have a V8 and a manual? How many of them, if they were in the position to make decisions, would make the mustang a V8 and manual only, killing off the 10 speed and ecoboost? This would immediately destroy the mustang and ruin it.

Sales numbers would drop so much that you would have to double prices just to make a viable business case out of it. Massive price increases which would collapse sales volume even further, leading to more price increases. Before you know it, you're in this vicious cycle of increasing prices, padding profit margins to make up for loses in terms of sales volume, and the cycle just keeps repeating and getting worse. That's how you get to a point where a standard mustang GT is like 130 grand and Ford sells three thousand of them a year. I don't want that.

The reality is, it's the Ecoboost entry level mustangs and other volume sellers that make that affordable V8 possible. If Ford develops a mustang sedan that shares a lot of components with the coupe, all of a sudden, that 10 speed high performance transmission you were making 30k units of a year goes up to 80k, or 100k units a year. You get economies of scale working in your favor, you can bring the per unit cost down. These lowered costs make the mustang more profitable for ford, and just maybe, even if it's a long shot, helps to make the mustang and it's derivatives more affordable for buyers because the cost to produce them is dropping.

I want the mustang to be thriving for decades into the future. That can only happen if Ford continues to invest in it. Ford can only justify investing in the mustang indefinitely if they find a way to grow the appeal and audience for the mustang.

 

[MaddNomad]

I get where you guys are coming from, but here's the thing, you're viewing the brand as Ford, and the mustang as a model. Ford is viewing the mustang and bronco basically as their own brands, and things like coupe and mach-e are the model.

That’s exactly what it is, no one calls the Mustang a brand other than marketing, which is just lazy.

Just like with Porsche, there was a time when Porsche basically only made the 911, that was basically all they were known for, a single model. So many people said that a Porsche sedan and SUVs with 911 styling cues, and a Porsche badge would kill the brand, that was basically everyone in Porsche fan clubs. Turns out making Porsche suvs and sedans basically saved the Porsche brand.

there we go again, taking the Porsche thing out of context.

Porsche still gives all those cars different names outside of the 911. If anyone needed a potential boost in sales it would be Porsche at that time by slapping 911 on stuff, but they didn’t. Porsche actually doesn’t help the argument like you guys think. It really makes the point we were getting at.

It's freaking wild to me how people can seriously thing a V8 powered performance sedan will tarnish the mustangs heritage when you had things like the '71-73 land barge, or pinto based mustang 2. Most of the mustang sedan renderings I've seen are better looking than basically any mustang from 71 through the 90s, and will outperform them all day long.

The mustang 2 was a pinto
The foxbody was a hatchback that looked like it wanted to be an American ae86 Corolla with flared fenders, the 90s mustangs were blobs on wheels. There are lots of mustangs throughout history that were nothing like the original mustang in looks, driving dynamics, engine options, etc.

People say just having a 4 door option will kill the mustang. But the charger went 4 door only for decades, and thrived. I don't see how having a a two and a four door mustang is a huge turn off.

those were all still 2 door coupes. None of those are sedans. Like the Probe isn’t a Mustang because it was a fwd car, though it was a 2 door. Still missing vital pieces to the recipe.

The Charger is no where near as iconic as the Mustang. It got killed off, brought back as a fwd car, killed off again, then came back as a 4 door. It’s been a sedan longer than a coupe actually and it found success like the Falcon believe it or not that way. The proper comparison would be if Chrysler brought back the Viper or Cuda and made it a sedan since those are Mopar’s most iconic nameplates. Shoot even the Challenger lived its life as a 2 door.

That 71-72 Big Horse oddly enough is lighter than the current Mustang btw which is crazy

 

[MaddNomad]

I'm more bothered that it ignores the actual state of Flat Rock Assembly Plant. Unless people want the random 4+ week downtimes to continue, it needs to build more cars. If market research says a pony badge will sell sedans, print as many My Little Mustang emblems as the factory can print.

So you’re saying without the Mustang name and styling on the front and rear FRAP will still have downtimes?

 

[DeluxeStang]

US Sales, Jan 1 - Jul 31, 2024 (source - Good Car Bad Car)

Mach-E: 26,826
Mustang: 30,653



I'm more bothered that it ignores the actual state of Flat Rock Assembly Plant. Unless people want the random 4+ week downtimes to continue, it needs to build more cars. If market research says a pony badge will sell sedans, print as many My Little Mustang emblems as the factory can print.

Flat Rock apparently has some sort of secretive additional product coming. Some employees know what it is, but won't say, only saying it wasn't a mustang raptor or sedan, but something else that would excite people. But they've said this product hasn't been talked about as much post UAW strikes.

 

[MaddNomad]

Flat Rock apparently has some sort of secretive additional product coming. Some employees know what it is, but won't say, only saying it wasn't a mustang raptor or sedan, but something else that would excite people. But they've said this product hasn't been talked about as much post UAW strikes.

Cobra from what some of those dealer guys are saying.

 

[DeluxeStang]

That’s exactly what it is, no one calls the Mustang a brand other than marketing, which is just lazy.


there we go again, taking the Porsche thing out of context.

Porsche still gives all those cars different names outside of the 911. If anyone needed a potential boost in sales it would be Porsche at that time by slapping 911 on stuff, but they didn’t. Porsche actually doesn’t help the argument like you guys think. It really makes the point we were getting at.



those were all still 2 door coupes. None of those are sedans. Like the Probe isn’t a Mustang because it was a fwd car, though it was a 2 door. Still missing vital pieces to the recipe.

Ther Charger is no where near as iconic as the Mustang. It got killed off, brought back as a fwd car, killed off again, then came back as a 4 door. It’s been a sedan longer than a coupe actually. The proper comparison would be if Chrysler brought back the Viper or Cuda and made it a sedan since those are Mopar’s most iconic nameplates. Shoot even the Challenger lived its life as a 2 door.

That Big horse oddly enough is lighter than the current Mustang btw which is crazy

The charger was literally considered to be, and often is still considered to be, one of the most iconic muscle cars from the 60s. It went sedan only, and was fine. Hence my argument that the mustang should be fine offering both, offer both, and let consumers decide, nothing wrong with that.

Yeah, the mustang 2 was a two door coupe, and it was a worse mustang than the mach-e in every way. The mach-e might have 4 doors, but it looks a hundred times more attractive than the mustang 2, would out accelerate it in reverse, and is just a much better car in every way. This is my point. You guys are so stuck on this idea of having 2 doors, that you're basically defending a literal 80 hp pinto based shitbox over a 700 lb ft of torque tire shredding monster just because it has two more doors.

My point is, if the mustang 2 having a go kart engine, and a design that would make a yugo look attractive by comparison didn't kill the mustang, a sexy V8 sedan isn't gonna do as much damage to the mustang brand as you guys think it is. I never thought I would be having to work so hard to justify a V8 powered sports sedan in front of a bunch of car enthusiasts.

 

[DeluxeStang]

That’s exactly what it is, no one calls the Mustang a brand other than marketing, which is just lazy.


there we go again, taking the Porsche thing out of context.

Porsche still gives all those cars different names outside of the 911. If anyone needed a potential boost in sales it would be Porsche at that time by slapping 911 on stuff, but they didn’t. Porsche actually doesn’t help the argument like you guys think. It really makes the point we were getting at.



those were all still 2 door coupes. None of those are sedans. Like the Probe isn’t a Mustang because it was a fwd car, though it was a 2 door. Still missing vital pieces to the recipe.

The Charger is no where near as iconic as the Mustang. It got killed off, brought back as a fwd car, killed off again, then came back as a 4 door. It’s been a sedan longer than a coupe actually and it found success like the Falcon believe it or not that way. The proper comparison would be if Chrysler brought back the Viper or Cuda and made it a sedan since those are Mopar’s most iconic nameplates. Shoot even the Challenger lived its life as a 2 door.

That 71-72 Big Horse oddly enough is lighter than the current Mustang btw which is crazy

But again, you guys seem to be thinking of the mustang as Ford's 911. When Ford sees mustang as it's Porsche, and the coupe or mach-e as the 911 and macan naming structures.

Think of what happened with Ram trucks for instance. It used to be Dodge Ram, as in Dodge was the brand, and Ram was the model. Then Ram became it's own brand with things like 1500 or 2500 becoming the model. That's basically what's happened with mustang.

 

[DeluxeStang]

This is probably why it's hard to get enthusiast cars greenlit. "Oh yeah, I really want a _________ unless you give it the wrong name, engine, transmission, seats, paint color, infotainment, exhaust, commercial, or charge money".

100%

 

[Radiant]

I never thought I would be having to work so hard to justify a V8 powered sports sedan in front of a bunch of car enthusiasts.

This is probably why it's hard to get enthusiast cars greenlit. "Oh yeah, I really want a _________ unless you give it the wrong name, engine, transmission, seats, paint color, infotainment, exhaust, commercial, or charge money".

But again, you guys seem to be thinking of the mustang as Ford's 911. When Ford sees mustang as it's Porsche, and the coupe or mach-e as the 911 and macan naming structures.

Exactly. Replace "Porsche" with "Mustang", it's a brand family.

 

[MaddNomad]

But again, you guys seem to be thinking of the mustang as Ford's 911. When Ford sees mustang as it's Porsche, and the coupe or mach-e as the 911 and macan naming structures.

Think of what happened with Ram trucks for instance. It used to be Dodge Ram, as in Dodge was the brand, and Ram was the model. Then Ram became it's own brand with things like 1500 or 2500 becoming the model. That's basically what's happened with mustang.

And that’s insane.

That makes no sense because Porsche is literally a manufacturer like Ford. They build cars like the 911, Panamera, etc. like Ford builds the Mustang, Bronco etc. Mustang doesn’t build cars, the nameplate is just on one. It’s not Called the Mustang Mach E it’s the Ford Mustang Mach E, that Sedan they showed was Ford Mustang Mach4.

Porsche wants all their cars to have some 911 DNA, Like Farley says he wants all these cars labeled Mustang to have Mustang DNA, but they just slap the name on, make it fast.

That’s per the people themselves not even my opinion. Farley also wanted to copy Porsche’s racing strategy they use for the 911 on the Mustang. Created a car to compete with a top tier 911. (GTD)

 

[MaddNomad]

This is probably why it's hard to get enthusiast cars greenlit. "Oh yeah, I really want a _________ unless you give it the wrong name, engine, transmission, seats, paint color, infotainment, exhaust, commercial, or charge money".

100%

yeah that’s literally wrong, we all like the idea of a performance sedan. We just know the Mustang name is not needed. No one said anything about it needs this engine, this, that, or the other. That’s adding unnecessary stuff no one is talking about to the convo.

 

[MaddNomad]

Exactly. Replace "Porsche" with "Mustang", it's a brand family.

Again it’s not working like you think it is. Porsche is a manufacturer not a brand family

 

[Radiant]

Again it’s not working like you think it is. Porsche is a manufacturer not a brand family

The Volkswagen Group lists Porsche as a brand.

 

[DeluxeStang]

yeah that’s literally wrong, we all like the idea of a performance sedan. We just know the Mustang name is not needed. No one said anything about it needs this engine, this, that, or the other. That’s adding unnecessary stuff no one is talking about to the convo.

My brother in Christ, please reread the first line of his comment and realize you just proved exactly what he was saying to be true. We're talking about how car companies don't want to invest in enthusiasts cars these days, because car enthusiasts are too picky, and thus, too unreliable to cater to.

Case in point, all the people claiming they want boxy, retro off-roaders, who now say they won't buy the upcoming scout suvs and trucks because they're gonna be EV only.

How often do car enthusiasts say "I was gonna buy X until I found out it was an EV, or a sedan, or didn't offer an manual, or switched from a V8 to a 6 cyl". How often do you hear enthusiasts say that shit? All the fucking time, literally with every exciting car, it's someone bitching because the brand changed it in this way to that way.

As car enthusiasts, we're our own worst enemy. Think about it, if you're a car brand spending billions of dollars, you're probably just gonna give up on enthusiasts at some point. Because you can really try to make something great, and people will still refuse to buy it because it uses an engine they don't like, or doesn't come in the color they want. Normal car buyers don't really care about any of that stuff, they'll buy a good product, they don't care that much about the name or engine type. That's why they're winning and we're losing.

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