Any new rumors/hints on the possible 4 door based off the current Mustang?

[Sharkman]

The heinousness of all these E cars will rain down some day in the future with very bad results. The mining has already polluted the ocean and killed off thousands of fish. And the fact that the batteries explode when wet and other negative characteristics is the next generation's cross to bear. No one sees behind the curtain of the harm these batteries do when they are discarded.
The depleted Lithium is a dangerous material.

Many years ago the engineering students at RPI developed a ceramic block and piston truck engine that ran on used french fry oil. The combustion of the aerated french fry oil burned at 10,000 degrees F. Out of the exhaust was water vapor. This was a better technology to pursue than electric vehicles.

Sponsored

 

[Gregs24]

The heinousness of all these E cars will rain down some day in the future with very bad results. The mining has already polluted the ocean and killed off thousands of fish. And the fact that the batteries explode when wet and other negative characteristics is the next generation's cross to bear. No one sees behind the curtain of the harm these batteries do when they are discarded.
The depleted Lithium is a dangerous material.

Many years ago the engineering students at RPI developed a ceramic block and piston truck engine that ran on used french fry oil. The combustion of the aerated french fry oil burned at 10,000 degrees F. Out of the exhaust was water vapor. This was a better technology to pursue than electric vehicles.

OK you really need to do some PROPER research rather than posting misinformation!

There is no such thing as 'depleted Lithium' in batteries. The Lithium is in compound form and doesn't burst into flames or explode when it gets wet. They may short circuit when submerged (especially in salt water) but that is not a Lithium explosion. There were 14 million EV's sold globally last year alone - how many burst into flames? The batteries do lose the ability to hold charge over time but much less than initially expected and when done in the EV they can be repurposed or recycled - all of these things are happening NOW.

Finally your ICE chip oil solution cannot be true can it? Where does the Carbon in the oil molecules after combustion? It has to go somewhere!

Basic Chemistry!

 

[Joe_Stang]

A new 4 door mustang would sell a lot as it would be the only 4 door american v8 out there (4 door v8 charger isn't being made anymore)However it would need to look a lot different than the s650 to sell.

 

[Skye]

The mining has already polluted the ocean and killed off thousands of fish.

And the fact that the batteries explode when wet...

No one sees behind the curtain of the harm these batteries do when they are discarded.

The depleted Lithium is a dangerous material.

Many years ago the engineering students at RPI developed a ceramic block and piston truck engine that ran on used french fry oil. The combustion of the aerated french fry oil burned at 10,000 degrees F. Out of the exhaust was water vapor. This was a better technology to pursue than electric vehicles.

It's generally accepted by scientists that CO2 from the atmosphere is absorbed by the ocean. The PH level is changed, the water becoming more acidic. Yes, this does affect wildlife.

Increased levels of mercury seen in fish are primarily the byproducts of spent coal, the contaminants from burning it being released in the atmosphere, settling in the water and being absorbed by the animal. Contamination continues upward through the food chain as lesser fish are eaten by their predators.

I'm not aware of lithium mining occurring in the ocean or in locations directly-attached to. I am aware of the potential for ocean mining to capture polymetallic nodules; these have high concentrations of rare earth minerals; it involves strip-mining the ocean floor. I'm not aware of anyone doing it.

Lithium is currently mined in two ways:

- Lithium ore can be removed from below ground. Treated with a certain mix of chemicals, the lithium can be extracted. The process is similar to removing gold and other precious metals from ores. Any mining is toxic, with tailings as a result. While we have certain controls in our country as to how the tailings are handled, I cannot speak to others. The issues involving toxic residuals is not unique to lithium or lithium mining

- Lithium brine water can be removed from below ground and left to dry in pools. I need to study if tailings are left or the lifecycle of these pools. But again, tradition mining of coal, drilling or fracking for oil and gas, gold, etc., also leaves things behind (see Ohio River Valley, parts of West Virginia). Some countries have controls. Others, not so much.

There is a new technique being trialed: Direct Lithium Extraction (DLE); this process is akin to traditional drilling, without mess or waste. This technology is just coming out of the labs now.

The concern of batteries exploding, catching fire, etc., comes up often. I've done some deep dives on that topic. A link to that follows. The data I pulled was to satisfy my curiosity on the topic, not to change peoples' minds.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/i-drove-my-first-ev.207730/page-15#post-4159392

This is a company I recently became aware of: Aspen Aerogels.

https://www.aerogel.com/industries/battery-thermal-barriers/

Aspen makes fire barriers for batteries. These firewalls are placed within the cells. While a fire is still possible, it's contained until it's over. Some auto manufacturers are incorporating the technology into their units today.

I'm not aware EV batteries, or traditional ICE lead acid batteries, are being discarded/dumped. I looked into that a few days ago. A link to that information follows.

I've Googled several times attempting to find where EV batteries have been discarded, dumped, or left abandoned, now or in the past. I can't find it.

Most states have laws and regulations specifying how HAZMAT is discarded. Lead-acid batteries, EV batteries, oil, antifreeze, etc., are not accepted at city dumps in my state. There are HAZMAT locations where these products can be turned in for recycling.

Are people throwing out batteries (any type) from their hearing aids, remotes, smoke detectors and phones? I'd have to say yes. And they're all toxic. Very few people I know ever consider recycling anything. Everything goes in the trash. In my city, I can turn the items into the county office, commercial company or retail store. Some make the effort. Most don't.

I'm surrounded by lithium products. When they've reached the end of their lifecycle, they're worn out like any other battery. I'm not aware "depleted" units are any more dangerous than any other unit. If anything, due to the lack of energy, they'd be safer. And as I show below, recycling for any lithium product (and traditional batteries to) is available.

https://www.mustang7g.com/forums/threads/how-do-we-save-the-mustang.164952/page-11#post-3333665

Regarding the Rotary Power International (RPI) french fry oil engine, I looked into that and the topic.

Did RPI create a "ceramic block and piston engine"? I looked for it, and could not find it. Did they create it? I can see they created a traditional rotary engine, with ceramic liners on the cylinder wall and rotary assembly, yes. Run on waste fry oil? Yes. Temperatures of 10,000F? I doubt that. My concerns:

- Rotary engines themselves have a difficult time maintaining oil control. Some engines work well. Others, suddenly lose large amounts of lubricating oil, from getting past the reciprocating assembly

- French fry oil does create less carbon emissions than traditional diesel or gas. But the problem is one of scale. In the US alone, we consume 370M gallons of gasoline a day. We simply don't create enough waste fry oil to come close to that

- Finally, the 10,000F number; this is the surface temperature of the Sun. I looked into the temperatures seen inside the combustion chamber of most ICE units. While spontaneous temps can approach 2000C (3650F), those are instantaneous readings in specific areas. A general temperature range in the combustion chamber is well below even the 2000C figure

 

[Gregs24]

It's generally accepted by scientists that CO2 from the atmosphere is absorbed by the ocean. The PH level is changed, the water becoming more acidic. Yes, this does affect wildlife.

I'm not aware of lithium mining occurring in the ocean or in locations directly-attached to. I am aware of the potential for ocean mining to capture polymetallic nodules; these have high concentrations of rare earth minerals; it involves strip-mining the ocean floor. I'm not aware of anyone doing it.

Lithium is currently mined in two ways:

- Lithium ore can be removed from below ground. Treated with a certain mix of chemicals, the lithium can be extracted. The process is similar to removing gold and other precious metals from ores. Any mining is toxic, with tailings as a result. While we have certain controls in our country as to how the tailings are handled, I cannot speak to others. The issues involving toxic residuals is not unique to lithium or lithium mining

- Lithium brine water can be removed from below ground and left to dry in pools. I need to study if tailings are left or the lifecycle of these pools. But again, tradition mining of coal, drilling or fracking for oil and gas, gold, etc., also leaves things behind (see Ohio River Valley, parts of West Virginia). Some countries have controls. Others, not so much.

There is a new technique being trialed: Direct Lithium Extraction (DLE); this process is akin to traditional drilling, without mess or waste. This technology is just coming out of the labs now.

The concern of batteries exploding, catching fire, etc., comes up often. I've done some deep dives on that topic. A link to that follows. The data I pulled was to satisfy my curiosity on the topic, not to change peoples' minds.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/i-drove-my-first-ev.207730/page-15#post-4159392

This is a company I recently became aware of: Aspen Aerogels.

https://www.aerogel.com/industries/battery-thermal-barriers/

Aspen makes fire barriers for batteries. These firewalls are placed within the cells. While a fire is still possible, it's contained until it's over. Some auto manufacturers are incorporating the technology into their units today.

I'm not aware EV batteries, or traditional ICE lead acid batteries, are being discarded/dumped. I looked into that a few days ago. A link to that information follows.

I've Googled several times attempting to find where EV batteries have been discarded, dumped, or left abandoned, now or in the past. I can't find it.

Most states have laws and regulations specifying how HAZMAT is discarded. Lead-acid batteries, EV batteries, oil, antifreeze, etc., are not accepted at city dumps in my state. There are HAZMAT locations where these products can be turned in for recycling.

Are people throwing out batteries (any type) from their hearing aids, remotes, smoke detectors and phones? I'd have to say yes. And they're all toxic. Very few people I know ever consider recycling anything. Everything goes in the trash. In my city, I can turn the items into the county office, commercial company or retail store. Some make the effort. Most don't.

I'm surrounded by lithium products. When they've reached the end of their lifecycle, they're worn out like any other battery. I'm not aware "depleted" units are any more dangerous than any other unit. If anything, due to the lack of energy, they'd be safer. And as I show below, recycling for any lithium product (and traditional batteries to) is available.

https://www.mustang7g.com/forums/threads/how-do-we-save-the-mustang.164952/page-11#post-3333665

Regarding the Rotary Power International (RPI) french fry oil engine, I looked into that and the topic.

Did RPI create a "ceramic block and piston engine"? I looked for it, and could not find it. Did they create it? I can see they created a traditional rotary engine, with ceramic liners on the cylinder wall and rotary assembly, yes. Run on waste fry oil? Yes. Temperatures of 10,000F? I doubt that. My concerns:

- Rotary engines themselves have a difficult time maintaining oil control. Some engines work well. Others, suddenly lose large amounts of lubricating oil, from getting past the reciprocating assembly

- French fry oil does create less carbon emissions than traditional diesel or gas. But the problem is one of scale. In the US alone, we consume 3.2B gallons of gasoline a day. We simply don't create enough waste fry oil to come close to that

- Finally, the 10,000F number; this is the surface temperature of the Sun. I looked into the temperatures seen inside the combustion chamber of most ICE units. While spontaneous temps can approach 2000C (3650F), those are instantaneous readings in specific areas. A general temperature range in the combustion chamber is well below even the 2000C figure

Oh look, if you are going to provide facts and evidence and not uninformed opinions then you will really struggle with some people on here

It is genuinely scary the rubbish some people post on here, where do they get this guff? Do they dream it up or believe the conspiracy theorists and pseudo scientist keyboard warriors in the bedrooms? You really need to try hard to make some of this shit up and even more so to believe it!

 

[9secondko]

It came out eons ago. Was called Mercury Marauder. Didn’t sell well.

 

[Kitulu]

It came out eons ago. Was called Mercury Marauder. Didn’t sell well.

That's a little different. The MM was produced to fill the niche left by the 1994-1996 Chevy Impala, which was then filled by the Chrysler 300 in 2005. The MM had a number of issues that prevented it from catching on:

1) The concept had a 335 hp supercharged 4.6 L SOHC V8, while the production model had a 302 hp 4.6 L DOHC V8.

2) The suspension and brakes were shared with the Police Interceptor.

3) The Panther platform was de-contented in 2003, meaning quite a few of the small luxuries in the platform were no longer offered.

4) It debuted with no real opposition, and right in the middle of the CUV/SUV craze.

IMO, a 4-door Mustang with useable rear seats would sell really well to families who feel that they have to give up their Mustang when they have a kid or two.

 

[Paul's stable]

If Ford were to make a four door Mustang, they'd end up killing the brand. They almost did, with the eMustang in my opinion.

I went on the build your vehicle site and the only thing they have that is called a car is the Mustang so there going to start building new cars If they stop the Mustang they will only be selling trucks and various SUV's.

 

[9secondko]

I went on the build your vehicle site and the only thing they have that is called a car is the Mustang so there going to start building new cars If they stop the Mustang they will only be selling trucks and various SUV's.

If Ford wants to sell ANY cars, even one - the Mustang - it will need to incrase the number of cars it offers. Bringing back the Taurus, Falcon, whatever, or adding new nameplates to modified versions of the next Mustang platform would help amortize the cost tremendously.

 

[Gregs24]

If Ford wants to sell ANY cars, even one - the Mustang - it will need to incrase the number of cars it offers. Bringing back the Taurus, Falcon, whatever, or adding new nameplates to modified versions of the next Mustang platform would help amortize the cost tremendously.

Ford do sell cars outside the US. The Fusion is still going strong in China and the Middle east, they could easily sell it in other places if they feel there is a market for it.

We also have the Puma in Europe (which is effectively a car) and the new small EV platform is intended for small Fiesta type vehicles and could be used for an electric coupe.

 

[9secondko]

Ford do sell cars outside the US. The Fusion is still going strong in China and the Middle east, they could easily sell it in other places if they feel there is a market for it.

We also have the Puma in Europe (which is effectively a car) and the new small EV platform is intended for small Fiesta type vehicles and could be used for an electric coupe.

Talking future care thanks. Not old fusions. The puma is a crossover suv, so while you may want to call it “effectively” a car, it’s a crossover SUv.

also SUV platforms, small or otherwise aren’t thean efficient start for cars. It’s just a way to avoid having to make a car platform. If I’m looking for a car, I don’t want it saddled with suv bones.

so back to the point. Ford needs tod ad CARS back into the lineup. Not a ton. But a few great ones. Keep the lineup simple and focus on quality. Base them in an all new modern Mustang platform and modify where needed to suit the needs of a 4 door enthusiast car, an economy car, a Camry/accord competitor, and boom. A viable, well funded ride into a healthy future for not only these cats, but especially the Mustang itself. It’s a win across the board. Sell more cars, those cars are high quality and very capable, and also sell more Mustangs while making it the best it can be.

so when I say ford need to add cars back into the lineup, I mean ford needs to sell CARS. Not “if you tilt sideways and squint at this suv,” not wwhell you could technically duct tape a car onto this suv platform,” etc.

new platform that is mustang specific - that is then extensible toward other cars.

Ford can use the suv platform on - SUVs and trucks.

and this is going to souncrazy I know but check this out…

and Ford can use the new mustang platform on … cars

It solves a lot of problems that ford got into by grasping at straws the last 7 years or so and paves the way for a healthy future.

 

[MaddNomad]

If Ford wants to sell ANY cars, even one - the Mustang - it will need to incrase the number of cars it offers. Bringing back the Taurus, Falcon, whatever, or adding new nameplates to modified versions of the next Mustang platform would help amortize the cost tremendously.

Yup start bringing all those legends from other markets back to life to cover whatever segment they need. V8 sedan? Australia’s Falcon. Turbo import fighter? Puma/Escort and RS brand.

Ford do sell cars outside the US. The Fusion is still going strong in China and the Middle east, they could easily sell it in other places if they feel there is a market for it.

We also have the Puma in Europe (which is effectively a car) and the new small EV platform is intended for small Fiesta type vehicles and could be used for an electric coupe.

That Puma would be a cool little entry car for the U.S.

 

[Gregs24]

Talking future care thanks. Not old fusions. The puma is a crossover suv, so while you may want to call it “effectively” a car, it’s a crossover SUv.

also SUV platforms, small or otherwise aren’t thean efficient start for cars. It’s just a way to avoid having to make a car platform. If I’m looking for a car, I don’t want it saddled with suv bones.

so back to the point. Ford needs tod ad CARS back into the lineup. Not a ton. But a few great ones. Keep the lineup simple and focus on quality. Base them in an all new modern Mustang platform and modify where needed to suit the needs of a 4 door enthusiast car, an economy car, a Camry/accord competitor, and boom. A viable, well funded ride into a healthy future for not only these cats, but especially the Mustang itself. It’s a win across the board. Sell more cars, those cars are high quality and very capable, and also sell more Mustangs while making it the best it can be.

so when I say ford need to add cars back into the lineup, I mean ford needs to sell CARS. Not “if you tilt sideways and squint at this suv,” not wwhell you could technically duct tape a car onto this suv platform,” etc.

new platform that is mustang specific - that is then extensible toward other cars.

Ford can use the suv platform on - SUVs and trucks.

and this is going to souncrazy I know but check this out…

and Ford can use the new mustang platform on … cars

It solves a lot of problems that ford got into by grasping at straws the last 7 years or so and paves the way for a healthy future.

Well not surprisingly you are misinformed on a few things. The Puma although a crossover actually uses the B platform which is a car platform originally used for the Fiesta and other small compact cars, so was car first, crossover second. There is now an EV version too. It will be replaced by the new small EV platform which has a similar brief. Oh and also the Puma is dimensionally almost identical the the Ford Focus (car) from the 1990's which everybody agreed was one of the best handling cars of the time, so don't get hung up on 'crossovers' not being cars.

Crucially though I assume you do understand how platforms work don't you, maybe not? A good example is the BMW M2, pretty good sports car ehh? Well you do know surely that it shares it's CLAR platform with the X3 and X4 amongst others which are clearly SUV's Doesn't seem to have harmed it does it?

Why is this? Simple have one or two flexible platforms that allow multiple models that save loads of development costs. Mustang doesn't sell anywhere near enough cars to be the primary driver of platforms, but that isn't to say they cannot make a great coupe using a flexible platform used elsewhere in the range.

Ford do and will continue to sell cars in markets that demand cars such as China and the Middle East

 

[Gregs24]

Yup start bringing all those legends from other markets back to life to cover whatever segment they need. V8 sedan? Australia’s Falcon. Turbo import fighter? Puma/Escort and RS brand.


That Puma would be a cool little entry car for the U.S.

I'm amazed they don't sell it in the US as it is by far their biggest selling car in Europe. If they were going to they would have by now. Maybe the new compact EV platform which will be used for the new Puma will be the next opportunity.

Falcon is long gone I'm afraid, it's EA169 platform was unique and had no future.

 

[Sharkman]

[QUOTE="Gregs24, post: 3335601, member: 36781"
Falcon is long gone I'm afraid, it's EA169 platform was unique and had no future.
[/QUOTE]

That was the car I learned how to drive in way back in 1976.........

Sponsored