2024 Mustang GT (7th gen) vs. 2023 Camaro SS (6th gen) -- Specs Comparison

[zstanny]

Actually yeah I had one on order that came in. I've had two SS 1le though and have driven zl1s which is basically a faster 1le. It felt the same to me and just want a change. Zl1 is a great car though.

True. Same suspension. Just a blower and a LT1 with the beefier internals.

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[shogun32]

A brand new Caddy CTS-4V blackwing is cheaper/same as a DH and has vastly better chassis and MR tuning than Ford can apparently muster.

 

[MustangMac67]

A brand new Caddy CTS-4V blackwing is cheaper/same as a DH and has vastly better chassis and MR tuning than Ford can apparently muster.

You say that even when we have not seen pricing, driven the car, seen the performance, or even experienced the MR tuning. Message to all those who are criticizing the car's driving and price characteristics. Stop! Not many people have driven the car, no one has seen official pricing, and tested it's capabilities. I know that everyone's predictions could be close, but do not count your chickens until they have hatched.

 

[Katastrophe]

Don't even try man. Everything GM is better than anything Ford, remember?

The Mach 1 HP beating both the SS1LE and CT4-V BW at VIR - and only being a little over a second behind the ZL1...nah, doesn't count.

The new DH...the one with more power, more brakes and presumably better tuning of chassis/suspension...oh, and not to mention optional CF wheels...yeah, it's going to be terrible...it'll drive worse and be slower than the already excellent M1 HP. #logic

EDIT: Full disclosure. GM makes some very good cars...let's just not get lost in the sauce here, lads.

 

[shogun32]

The Mach 1 HP beating both the SS1LE and CT4-V BW at VIR - and only being a little over a second behind the ZL1...nah, doesn't count.

tires matter. And as you can see Cup2 vs PS4s/SC3 isn't remotely a fair fight. Sure it's not the ENTIRE story, either but its a nice big chunk!

But just because a professional driver with lots of practice time managed a better time doesn't follow that the COMPONENTS or the tuning of same is better. He was just able to drive around/despite the deficiencies. That's what pro drivers do.

https://www.caranddriver.com/featur...-camaro-ss-1le-at-lightning-lap-2016-feature/
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38966053/2021-ford-mustang-mach-1-lightning-lap/
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38966030/2022-cadillac-ct4-v-blackwing-lightning-lap/

I can immediately tell the SS/1LE and BW chassis is better behaved, the adjustments actually do something, and the car talks to me more clearly than the GT350/M1. And it doesn't take balls-to-the-wall driving to demonstrate it.

But yes we'll see if the full-zoot DH inspired Ford to go back to the gym and actually make a go at giving GM a run for it's money.

 

[Katastrophe]

tires matter. And as you can see Cup2 vs PS4s/SC3 isn't remotely a fair fight. Sure it's not the ENTIRE story, either but its a nice big chunk!

But just because a professional driver with lots of practice time managed a better time doesn't follow that the COMPONENTS or the tuning of same is better. He was just able to drive around/despite the deficiencies. That's what pro drivers do.

https://www.caranddriver.com/featur...-camaro-ss-1le-at-lightning-lap-2016-feature/
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38966053/2021-ford-mustang-mach-1-lightning-lap/
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a38966030/2022-cadillac-ct4-v-blackwing-lightning-lap/

I can immediately tell the SS/1LE and BW chassis is better behaved, the adjustments actually do something, and the car talks to me more clearly than the GT350/M1. And it doesn't take balls-to-the-wall driving to demonstrate it.

But yes we'll see if the full-zoot DH inspired Ford to go back to the gym and actually make a go at giving GM a run for it's money.

Tires do matter, but we're dealing with OEM vehicles and parts/specs here...theres no point in going down the rabbit hole of "what-if's" for content on a vehicle, IMHO. "Run what you brung".

I do agree that some people may find a certain vehicle better or worse...but that comes down to their driving style/skill level and is very subjective. If a car is CAPABLE of beating another car, but can't in the hands of most drivers, that doesn't make the car bad...it simply means the car require more skill. AKA - harder to drive but potentially more rewarding.

Also, some people would rather be sweating their nuts off pushing for that next tenth of a second and some don't. Nothing wrong with either, honestly. Example: on the LL all time list...go down to 2:53.5 - 2011 Z06 vs 2022 M3 Comp xDrive. Yes, conditions, weather, etc...forgot those variables here. The point is these cars will run nearly identical times, with 2 VERY different approaches. For what it's worth, I'd rather rip around in the C6 Z06.

As for the DH...I can't see it being slower than an M1 HP...which in this test, is already quicker than than it's aforementioned rivals. Again, for what it's worth, these cars may swap around positions based on different tracks.

 

[codemanstang]

You say that even when we have not seen pricing, driven the car, seen the performance, or even experienced the MR tuning. Message to all those who are criticizing the car's driving and price characteristics. Stop! Not many people have driven the car, no one has seen official pricing, and tested it's capabilities. I know that everyone's predictions could be close, but do not count your chickens until they have hatched.

I'm referring to the current mach1 HP. Comparing the mag ride. That's why ford has to catch up on this one. We don't have to stop. That's why there's this huge forum built. Literally for discussion. I think your expecting more. We know quite a bit about the current Mach and quite a bit about the DH. Don't expect a huge leap of change. After all it's the same chassis same engine for the most part.

it's 2024 and we're comparing the performance of a car built and engineered in 2023 vs its competitor that was built in 2017. Idk what else to say there. Remember the 2005 mustangs? They were quite lack luster do to lack of competition. Competition , debate, criticism is good. It benefits the consumer.

 

[zstanny]

I can immediately tell the SS/1LE and BW chassis is better behaved, the adjustments actually do something, and the car talks to me more clearly than the GT350/M1. And it doesn't take balls-to-the-wall driving to demonstrate it.

Compared to the M1 HP The SS1LE feels more crisp? Precise? Nimble? All of those words at the same time. Is it night and day? No. But it's noticeable. I give the 5.0 in the M1 the same noticable bump over the LT1.

What some people here fail to realize, is that the 1LE suspension tuning and chassis is nothing new, and Ford is still behind it. And it doesn't APPEAR that the DH will be a significant step above the M1 HP in that regard.

That's not bashing Ford. It's not saying what they put out isn't good, It's just pointing out a weak(er) point that they're chosing to not really address.

Shogun I'm really not replying to you, just tagging along to other comments in the discussion

 

[DarkHorsepower]

Compared to the M1 HP The SS1LE feels more crisp? Precise? Nimble? All of those words at the same time. Is it night and day? No. But it's noticeable. I give the 5.0 in the M1 the same noticable bump over the LT1.

What some people here fail to realize, is that the 1LE suspension tuning and chassis is nothing new, and Ford is still behind it. And it doesn't APPEAR that the DH will be a significant step above the M1 HP in that regard.

That's not bashing Ford. It's not saying what they put out isn't good, It's just pointing out a weak(er) point that they're chosing to not really address.

Shogun I'm really not replying to you, just tagging along to other comments in the discussion

Its falling on deaf ears, guys.
We know the superiority of the Alpha platform.
Reviewers know the superiority of the Alpha platform.
TRACK TIMES KNOW the superiority of the Alpha platform.
Loyalists only KNOW what they THINK. And, then they THINK they KNOW it.
Im excited for the Dark Horse.
I 100% plan on ordering one.
BUT… I hope Ford has finally caught up with GMs chassis engineering. After all, they have had since 2017 to do so.
I stated the other day that the S550s handling was “unacceptable”. To which I got flamed. lol
Folks… when your benchmark competitor has been showing you their cards since 2017 and you have produced MULTIPLE “track” versions of your car that still barely compete with said OG…. that is the DEFINITION of “unacceptable” for any buyer with any discerning taste
Ford has to be on point with this Dark Horse.
PLEEAASSE be on point!?!?
The car is stunning and I love the tech. The handling is my biggest concern.

 

[Zcarmenb28]

Don't even try man. Everything GM is better than anything Ford, remember?

The Mach 1 HP beating both the SS1LE and CT4-V BW at VIR - and only being a little over a second behind the ZL1...nah, doesn't count.

The new DH...the one with more power, more brakes and presumably better tuning of chassis/suspension...oh, and not to mention optional CF wheels...yeah, it's going to be terrible...it'll drive worse and be slower than the already excellent M1 HP. #logic

EDIT: Full disclosure. GM makes some very good cars...let's just not get lost in the sauce here, lads.

You're comparing times that are ~5 years apart. Track conditions change throughout one day, not to mention 5 years. That said, here's what Car and Driver said about the ZL1 at lightning lap (hint, they think it could have gone 2:47 in more favorable conditions, which is a lot faster than the time they were able to muster with the hot track temps later in the day):

"The best laps usually happen in the early morning, when the air is cooler than Miles Davis. Later, the track surface turns to lava and no good can come of that. On our go-for-it lap, with the ZL1 huffing the dense morning air, we arrived at the Climbing Esses with greater speed than ever before and couldn’t get it to turn into the first right. While the car mostly stayed on the tarmac, a curb strike bent a front wheel. By the time we changed it and got back in the ZL1, the track was about as cool as Kenny G.

In more favorable conditions, we’re confident that the Camaro ZL1 had a 2:48 in it, maybe a 2:47. Even though we are disappointed by our 2:50.1, the regular ZL1 is still 0.8 second quicker than the 2015 Z/28."

Sort of like the Mach 1 HP went faster than a GT350R at lightning lap, but that was ran in what, 2016? No doubt, same day, same track, the R is faster than the Mach 1.

 

[Hack]

Wow, lots of Chevy people in the Mustang 7G forums.

I get so annoyed by Alpha chassis nonsense. The Mustang chassis is slightly better than the failed Camaro's chassis. Mustang times were slower when the Mustang was equipped with less sticky tires, but once both cars had similar tires the Mustang was slightly faster.

It's the same kind of thing Ford did everywhere on the car - made the Mustang easier to live with and a better driver. Yes, huge sticky tires make good track times, but they are a waste of money for real driving.

 

[Zcarmenb28]

Wow, lots of Chevy people in the Mustang 7G forums.

I get so annoyed by Alpha chassis nonsense. The Mustang chassis is slightly better than the failed Camaro's chassis. Mustang times were slower when the Mustang was equipped with less sticky tires, but once both cars had similar tires the Mustang was slightly faster.

It's the same kind of thing Ford did everywhere on the car - made the Mustang easier to live with and a better driver. Yes, huge sticky tires make good track times, but they are a waste of money for real driving.

You're the only one that thinks the Mustang's chassis is better than the Alpha chassis - even on a Mustang forum. As far as tire goes: The Mustang top performing trims come with Cup 2s (PP2, GT350 and R, Mach 1 HP, GT500 CFTP), and those are a little higher grip tire than the Supercar3 that comes on the ZL1 and SS 1LE. The Camaro tire advantage idea was something you just made up.

ThrottleHouse pitted a PP2 vs SS 1LE both on Cup 2s, and on their short technical track, the 1LE was over a second faster. Same day, same driver, same tire, same trim level.

 

[zstanny]

Idk why you’re getting annoyed? I just gave a non biased review of both. I’ve owned both. And currently own a M1. What reason would I have to openly admit the car I bought feels sloppier lol? I’m not mad about it or I wouldn’t have brought the M1 home.

Wow, lots of Chevy people in the Mustang 7G forums.

I get so annoyed by Alpha chassis nonsense. The Mustang chassis is slightly better than the failed Camaro's chassis. Mustang times were slower when the Mustang was equipped with less sticky tires, but once both cars had similar tires the Mustang was slightly faster.

It's the same kind of thing Ford did everywhere on the car - made the Mustang easier to live with and a better driver. Yes, huge sticky tires make good track times, but they are a waste of money for real driving.

 

[Hack]

You're the only one that thinks the Mustang's chassis is better than the Alpha chassis - even on a Mustang forum. As far as tire goes: The Mustang top performing trims come with Cup 2s (PP2, GT350 and R, Mach 1 HP, GT500 CFTP), and those are a little higher grip tire than the Supercar3 that comes on the ZL1 and SS 1LE. The Camaro tire advantage idea was something you just made up.

ThrottleHouse pitted a PP2 vs SS 1LE both on Cup 2s, and on their short technical track, the 1LE was over a second faster. Same day, same driver, same tire, same trim level.

I don't really care too much what other people think. I don't take polls to decide what to think. I decide what to think based on the information I have available to me.

It does make a difference the size of the track for sure. I agree the Camaro is a hair faster on small tracks, whereas the Mustang is slightly faster on large tracks. You can see the difference in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times as well. The Coyote takes a little longer to get going vs. the larger cubic inch engine in the Camaro. And the slightly lighter weight of the Camaro helps it as well.

I disagree that the Cup 2s are better than Supercar 3s. They are similar. A fair number of Mustang people use the S3s rather than Cups even if the S3s don't come in the exact right sizes. This is part of the same argument that the Alpha chassis is so amazing as well. The evidence shows the tires are similar just like the chassis are similar.

Idk why you’re getting annoyed? I just gave a non biased review of both. I’ve owned both. And currently own a M1. What reason would I have to openly admit the car I bought feels sloppier lol? I’m not mad about it or I wouldn’t have brought the M1 home.

If I were on a Camaro forum I would expect the posts to be very favorable for the Camaro. Not so much here. I come to a Ford forum for a reason, you know.

I have driven Camaros a few times and I didn't like them. I read all the articles and assumed I would love to own a 1LE. It has all the track stuff and I don't care much about trunk space, etc. I wanted something different than the Mustang just for variety. I thought the clutch and shifter felt cheap. I didn't like how the engine revved out. I didn't like the small windows and claustrophobic cabin. The dash was too low and interfered with my knees. The handling didn't seem markedly better. I ended up deciding not to buy a Camaro due to my experiences in driving them.

I believe on track there might be a slight difference, but these cars are so close in performance you need a timer to differentiate. It's not like one stands head and shoulders above the other.

 

[Katastrophe]

You're comparing times that are ~5 years apart. Track conditions change throughout one day, not to mention 5 years. That said, here's what Car and Driver said about the ZL1 at lightning lap (hint, they think it could have gone 2:47 in more favorable conditions, which is a lot faster than the time they were able to muster with the hot track temps later in the day):

"The best laps usually happen in the early morning, when the air is cooler than Miles Davis. Later, the track surface turns to lava and no good can come of that. On our go-for-it lap, with the ZL1 huffing the dense morning air, we arrived at the Climbing Esses with greater speed than ever before and couldn’t get it to turn into the first right. While the car mostly stayed on the tarmac, a curb strike bent a front wheel. By the time we changed it and got back in the ZL1, the track was about as cool as Kenny G.

In more favorable conditions, we’re confident that the Camaro ZL1 had a 2:48 in it, maybe a 2:47. Even though we are disappointed by our 2:50.1, the regular ZL1 is still 0.8 second quicker than the 2015 Z/28."

Sort of like the Mach 1 HP went faster than a GT350R at lightning lap, but that was ran in what, 2016? No doubt, same day, same track, the R is faster than the Mach 1.

I'm comparing what's given to me...nothing more. Would it be better if I compare something within 2 years time? Say, the 2018 Mustang PP2 that also beat the SS1LE...

What about R&T picking the GT350R as their Performance car of the year for 2016? Hell, let's have even more fun. Check out the LL all time list and find a car that also weighs 2+ tons, yet is faster than the GT500 CFTP. Spoiler, you can't. In order to make a barge (and I mean that in an endearing way) of a car out-perform it's weight, it takes some real tuning. You don't simply make it happen with a "sub-par" chassis.

At the end of the day, I have no horse in this race...if someone likes the SS1LE or ZL1 more than the equivalent Mustang...cool. They are great cars, IMHO.

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