2025 Mustang GTD World Debut at Le Mans! 🏁

[9secondko]

I'd prefer the Saleen S302's front upper grille personally, but the GTD's is (slowly) growing on me.

Now that GTD wing...I wonder how someone could make that for the GT, either where it is now or somehow on the decklid area.

personally I think the Saleen grille style is a backward step. I like that they shrink the catfish looking giant grille, but it just looks kind of plain, stale, uninspired. The GTD grille on the other hand shrink the vertical size even more, but does some attractively creative things with the geometry. It ends up looking exotic. It looks special. The lower part of the fascia is killer too. Hopefully they can emulate that in a mass market car. No reason why not. Maybe add something like grilled or fogs to the slab sided portions on either side of the lower fascia though. The rear diffuser/valance is a keeper too.

Sponsored

 

[9secondko]

I hear you but there is a reason that no racecars use the WW1 technology of supercharging today anymore…Nobody knows if it overheats but for sure it will use too much fuel and spend too much time in the pits…But the GTD is intended for the few who collect , have the means for expensive track toys they do a few 20 minute sessions in while their trophy wifes are bored in the spa and a few youtubers trying to get enough eyeballs to get there… So its all good except for the interior that looks low rent…And its needs a Tremec instead of the old rotary dial

heat soak is intrinsic to supercharging. It’s mitigated with cooling, inter cooling, but it’s still there.

turbos are the far superior way to go. More efflcient in terms of it not taking engine power to turn it, since exhaust gasses do that. This result in better economy and a lot more power per psi. A 200 horsepower supercharger gain is something like a 300 hp turbo gain at the same psi.

the only reasons I think the American OEMs haven’t done turbos in the v8s is threefold:

1) it pokes huge holes in the idea that 4 and 6 cylinders are a better solution than 8 cylinders - they love to say “hey look! This turbo 6 Raptor has this much more horsepower than the naturally aspirated 8 cylinder.” Purposely leaving out the fact that if you turbocharged the 8 cylinder, the 6 would be hopelessly outmatched. Not even in the running.

2) exhaust note. The turbos connecting to the exhaust changes the way it sounds and ends up being softer. But I’d gladly sacrifice some decibels for a couple hundred or more extra horsepower.

3) lag. Twin screw/roots supercharger make instant torque down low. Turbos have historically had a problem with lag before boost has had time to build. It’s an awkward sensation to mash the throttle and feel some acceleration, followed by “holy crap!” Type of acceleration that comes up a second or three later. Thst can be frustrating on the track too. You want to be able to time the gas coming out of a corner and have confidence that full power is available when you hit the gas. Not getting surprised by it at the worst possible moment. But that’s been dealt with using assymetrical and sequential turbos. Use the smaller one to build instant boost and the bigger one comes on in time for the smaller to be at its peak. It feels continuous and similar to the supercharger feel.

ultimately, Ford will have to go turbo on the v8s. But right now, they seem to be comfortable with using tech they are very comfortable with and have pretty much perfected.

the crazy thing is, they’ve perfected turbos too with ecoboost. Hopefully they have already started developing an ecoboost/powerboost/whatever v8 with the same gusto they developed the v6.

that would surely yield a truly legendary result.

 

[Karguy]

heat soak is intrinsic to supercharging. It’s mitigated with cooling, inter cooling, but it’s still there.

turbos are the far superior way to go. More efflcient in terms of it not taking engine power to turn it, since exhaust gasses do that. This result in better economy and a lot more power per psi. A 200 horsepower supercharger gain is something like a 300 hp turbo gain at the same psi.

the only reasons I think the American OEMs haven’t done turbos in the v8s is threefold:

1) it pokes huge holes in the idea that 4 and 6 cylinders are a better solution than 8 cylinders - they love to say “hey look! This turbo 6 Raptor has this much more horsepower than the naturally aspirated 8 cylinder.” Purposely leaving out the fact that if you turbocharged the 8 cylinder, the 6 would be hopelessly outmatched. Not even in the running.

2) exhaust note. The turbos connecting to the exhaust changes the way it sounds and ends up being softer. But I’d gladly sacrifice some decibels for a couple hundred or more extra horsepower.

3) lag. Twin screw/roots supercharger make instant torque down low. Turbos have historically had a problem with lag before boost has had time to build. It’s an awkward sensation to mash the throttle and feel some acceleration, followed by “holy crap!” Type of acceleration that comes up a second or three later. Thst can be frustrating on the track too. You want to be able to time the gas coming out of a corner and have confidence that full power is available when you hit the gas. Not getting surprised by it at the worst possible moment. But that’s been dealt with using assymetrical and sequential turbos. Use the smaller one to build instant boost and the bigger one comes on in time for the smaller to be at its peak. It feels continuous and similar to the supercharger feel.

ultimately, Ford will have to go turbo on the v8s. But right now, they seem to be comfortable with using tech they are very comfortable with and have pretty much perfected.

the crazy thing is, they’ve perfected turbos too with ecoboost. Hopefully they have already started developing an ecoboost/powerboost/whatever v8 with the same gusto they developed the v6.

that would surely yield a truly legendary result.

Absolutely The reason Ford , GM & Dodge stayed with supercharging because the GTD,ZL1,HC where never intended to race except for the 1/4 mile or 20 min trackday sessions that could even be too much for the C7ZO6 that would heatsoak so bad that Randy Pobst could not even get one lap out of it in Laguna Seca for best drivers car…Another reason it is way cheaper for OEMs to slap a SC on it and make good power on paper because to have a turbo that works well on a cross plane crank V8 is much harder to archive with the firing order this type of engine has…Look how BMW or Mercedes solved the problem reversing the flow and putting the turbos inside the V with great results…As for sound or lag this is no problem anymore either with the new electric turbos coming in the ‘25 911 making n/a more lagging…Especially in combination with the electric hybrid flywheel as ICE technology moves on

 

[agreywolfe]

Its not too fast but probably too slow to race because of the SC adding too much weight over the front , creating too much heat and causing too many pit stops due to excessive fuel consumption…Look at the Garage 56 Nascar ZL1 Camaro that came in 39th at last years 24 hours of Le Mans…It had a n/a 5.8 V8 instead of the SC 6.2 for obvious reasons…I hear the GTD race car will be powered by a n/a 5.4 which would be cool for next years GT with the option for a titanium Akrapovic exhaust…These exhaust systems are the best ! Pure art the systems itself and quality of the welds

Nah, the GTD is too fast, it's the same coyote block for the GT3 and GTD engines, the GT3 is limited to between 500 and 600 hp vs the GTDs 800+. The GT3 is lighter however the GTD has active aero components including DRS vs the GT3s static aero. G56 was slow because at its core it's still a steel tube frame chassis nascar that weights 300kg more than the gt3 and has the aerodynamics of a brick.

 

[Karguy]

I have to say that I'm really disappointed with the interior. They made a very minimal amount of improvements over the DH interior. For $300K+ that's simply not going to cut it for me. There's still fake carbon fiber in there, Recaro's that aren't different much at all over what they used in the GT350 and GT500, typical Ford plastics and same screens and graphics that are more video game like than serious. Sitting in it, it'll feel like you're sitting in a Dark Horse, but you paid $300K+ for it.

Probably won't get granted an allocation anyway but I think I'd decline if they did give me one. I'll wait for the next GT500 level Mustang.

If you spend half a million with tax and markups I think the interior is an insult and shows that they dont even care except for filling their own pockets…I mean it is one thing to charge a lot of dough for a car modified with a CF body and a chassis that employs a transaxle a la Porsche 928 from 1977 or C5 1997 Corvette but keep the inside like a regular cheap plastic Mustang with a different wheel , seat and paddle shifter material does not cut it in that league…As real racers would prefer a few gauges and air vents to keep them cool instead of the giant touchscreen with all the cool and fun aps…LOL Oh well Stangmode will love it and I will watch him helping to pay for it… As also Throttle House wax lyrical about the steering feel that is finally there and Savage Geese hail it as the second coming of christ even if it is not from Honda…At least they entertain and I am grateful for it and love the comments of the people who take it like the gospel

 

[Karguy]

Nah, the GTD is too fast, it's the same coyote block for the GT3 and GTD engines, the GT3 is limited to between 500 and 600 hp vs the GTDs 800+. The GT3 is lighter however the GTD has active aero components including DRS vs the GT3s static aero. G56 was slow because at its core it's still a steel tube frame chassis nascar that weights 300kg more than the gt3 and has the aerodynamics of a brick.

I dont know if the Garage 56 Nascarmaro had the aerodynamics of a brick because all they do in Nascar is run fast in a straight line..The n/a V8 5.8 was said to make close to 700 hp and the car is light but it was shocking to see how low it scored on this type of international level as it was the 2nd fastest car on lightning lap ever…

 

[agreywolfe]

I dont know if the Garage 56 Nascarmaro had the aerodynamics of a brick because all they do in Nascar is run fast in a straight line..The n/a V8 5.8 was said to make close to 700 hp and the car is light but it was shocking to see how low it scored on this type of international level as it was the 2nd fastest car on lightning lap ever…

Nah it was actually pretty fast overall, the reason it finished so far down was because they had to do a full gearbox swap mid-race

 

[Karguy]

Nah it was actually pretty fast overall, the reason it finished so far down was because they had to do a full gearbox swap mid-race

At least it sounded fast and should have been given a award for best exhaust noise…

 

[Hack]

The supercharger doesn't 100% guarantee a car will be slow on track. It's actually possible to cool one. Hellcats and Demons do seem to have great straight line acceleration even after a number of laps.

I do agree with the weight argument. More cubic inches is a better way to get to the power for reducing weight, complexity and cost.

 

[9secondko]

A sub 7 minute would make the GTD the fastest American production car to have lapped the Nordschleife and the only American production car to have done it under 7 minutes with the next closest being the 2017 Viper ACR GTS-R at 7:01.3

Not bad.

but it would suck if you had to purchase an extra performance package on top of the 300+k price to have that capability.

 

[9secondko]

Huge fan of the GTD. The only thing that bothers me - with the Zoe’s/C8 vette coming out with around 1000 hp twin turbo around the same time, how will it stack up? Ford is asking crazy money and the Bette will likely be cheaper by a lot. So… is the GTD going to be able to hang?

Mustang and corvette are usually not conpareable, in separate classes. But at this price, and with so much being made of the suspension, 800+ hp, etc., essentially being called a supercar, what’s this going to look like? Because you know the other side of the aisle is going to be poking every hole they can.

Is Multimatic/Ford doing enough?

I have a theory thst the GTD exists as a way to actively fund development of a high performing next-gen Mustang platform more than anything. But still, it needs to be able to impress under an onslaught of scrutiny.

 

[Gogoggansgo]

heat soak is intrinsic to supercharging. It’s mitigated with cooling, inter cooling, but it’s still there.

turbos are the far superior way to go. More efflcient in terms of it not taking engine power to turn it, since exhaust gasses do that. This result in better economy and a lot more power per psi. A 200 horsepower supercharger gain is something like a 300 hp turbo gain at the same psi.

the only reasons I think the American OEMs haven’t done turbos in the v8s is threefold:

1) it pokes huge holes in the idea that 4 and 6 cylinders are a better solution than 8 cylinders - they love to say “hey look! This turbo 6 Raptor has this much more horsepower than the naturally aspirated 8 cylinder.” Purposely leaving out the fact that if you turbocharged the 8 cylinder, the 6 would be hopelessly outmatched. Not even in the running.

2) exhaust note. The turbos connecting to the exhaust changes the way it sounds and ends up being softer. But I’d gladly sacrifice some decibels for a couple hundred or more extra horsepower.

3) lag. Twin screw/roots supercharger make instant torque down low. Turbos have historically had a problem with lag before boost has had time to build. It’s an awkward sensation to mash the throttle and feel some acceleration, followed by “holy crap!” Type of acceleration that comes up a second or three later. Thst can be frustrating on the track too. You want to be able to time the gas coming out of a corner and have confidence that full power is available when you hit the gas. Not getting surprised by it at the worst possible moment. But that’s been dealt with using assymetrical and sequential turbos. Use the smaller one to build instant boost and the bigger one comes on in time for the smaller to be at its peak. It feels continuous and similar to the supercharger feel.

ultimately, Ford will have to go turbo on the v8s. But right now, they seem to be comfortable with using tech they are very comfortable with and have pretty much perfected.

the crazy thing is, they’ve perfected turbos too with ecoboost. Hopefully they have already started developing an ecoboost/powerboost/whatever v8 with the same gusto they developed the v6.

that would surely yield a truly legendary result.

Everything you said is true but I’d like to add more

1) turbos also add cost and complexity significantly
2) like you said with exhaust note but it’s a bit more complicated, it entirely depends on where the turbo is installed and if it uses an integrated exhaust manifold, if it does they sound like hot garbage, but a turbo fold head significantly reduces cost and turbo threshold “lag”
3) the coyote is already a big engine so adding turbos out board would significantly increase size and width. So much so that honestly they would be better off making a brand new engine
4) then you get people that go what about a HOT V turbo engine where the exhaust is in board, don’t even get me going they’re kinda crap and have major heat management issues, plus they sound like garbage
5) I’d rather see ford do some ford of hybrid like a power boost first because the coyote is living possibly in its last generation, it had a 10 year lifespan from inception. And they’ve done a great job with it but once we hit 500hp with emissions getting way more strict. They only have 3 ways out, make a new motor, increase displacement which is hard to do with the bore spacing at 100mm and or increase the redline to push the powerband higher

That’s pretty much all we got guys

Sponsored