Another dire sales report [ADMIN WARNING: NO POLITICS]

[robvas]

If you hate Fords so much why are you here? A little bit of research and you would be better informed, 90% of the vehicles on your list are locked for the same reason as well as anti-theft, every single high end car on your list requires special programing to replace the simplest thing on i

Who said they hate Ford? And what list? Don't put words in my mouth.

Mustang owners like to modify their cars. It's a dumb thing for them to do, they lose the enthusiast market.

You can very easily tune something like a WRX or Kia Stinger, for example. Some others are more complicated or expensive but the fact remains that you can still do it.

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[Gregs24]

"Another dire sales report"

The only dire thing here is the desperation of some members who just can't stop beating a dead horse.

Like the car? Buy one.

Don't like it? Great - go buy yourself a BMW, a Prius, a C8, or whatever you like and close the pie holes.

Gheesh.

Most of those beating on the S650 don't own an S650! For some reason they know better than those of us who have actually bought one!

 

[robvas]

"Another dire sales report"

The only dire thing here is the desperation of some members who just can't stop beating a dead horse

It's almost as bad as when people try to discuss low sales and you get the same people denying it and making excuses and saying "well I enjoyed paying for mine!"

Great...but that's not the topic of the thread

Or when a tuning thread comes up and numerous people say "the stock car has plenty of power for me? Why would anyone want to tune it? Thats just silly!"

 

[smurfslayer]

This is, to me, the core issue. It's kind of like Harley Davidson Motorcycles. Was a time when 1%'s (as in Hardcore bikers, not 1%'s of wealth) were the core of the business, buying them even in the 80s when it was a coin flip on whether or not they would stay together and running. Then Harley started building motorcycles that cost upwards of the price of a car. Touring models now cost $30k and up; cruisers and sports models start in the $20's (new). What you could modify with these bikes also has significantly changed, going from frame and engine modifications, now to which luggage racks and "Harley Authorized" engine upgrades. Guess what, Harley Davidson has experienced declining sales in the double digits in light of these changes. It seems to me like Ford Mustang is repeating the trend.

I think your analogy only applies to a subset of the Mustang line up - the limited edition, hard core driving vehicles -the GT350, GT500, maybe to some extent the Dark Horse.

HD saw $$$ by transitioning from the relatively poor tinkerer, to the Rich Urban Biker crowd, commonly called ‘wannabes’ & RUBs. Easily identified by their ubiquitous attire, including SoA, and “Pipe Hitters Union” patches. Unlike the traditional 1 percenter, RUBs didn’t like the lack of reliability, durability and ability, so HD started offering their own engine upgrades, which were quite expensive for what you got. Time was you could outlay 1/3 the cost of the motorcycle in engine upgrades that wouldn’t even break 100 RWHP. On a 500 pound bike, 100 wheel hp isn’t terrible, but on an 850 pound cruiser, 2 up, it’s weak. Try wheezing up a mountain pass like that.

So HD started upping the engine options, adding luggage, and of late started bringing in actual luxury features, and even offered some competitive options to the Japanese manufacturers. Sure, you can get a Goldwing cheaper, it has more power, more features, more comfort over the long haul, it’s as smooth as a Singer sewing machine

But it’s not a true “one percenter” bike, so it won’t do for being in the club.

The same thing has happened to the Mustang. They don’t target the demographic they used to because the Rich Urban Mustang Owners - can we call them RUMOs? They’ll pay more for more. Unfortunately, this brings attention to ’snob’ customers who get their feelings hurt when a less prestigious American ‘muscle car’ out breaks them into turn one... That only needs to happen a few times until they start looking into Mustangs, and they impulse buy one and then whine and moan endlessly how it lacks fit and finish or does things their <insert brand here> doesn’t do.

You can still get a GT relatively inexpensive for the current times, it’s when you start adding on all the gizmos and features from the packages that prices really skyrocket. Again, targeted at the buyer who wants more and will pay more. People who will wait 18 months PLUS for delivery on an order!!!

"Another dire sales report"

The only dire thing here is the desperation of some members who just can't stop beating a dead horse.

Like the car? Buy one.

Don't like it? Great - go buy yourself a BMW, a Prius, a C8, or whatever you like and close the pie holes.

Gheesh.

Can I get an “AMEN”?

 

[Bikeman315]

I think your analogy only applies to a subset of the Mustang line up - the limited edition, hard core driving vehicles -the GT350, GT500, maybe to some extent the Dark Horse.

HD saw $$$ by transitioning from the relatively poor tinkerer, to the Rich Urban Biker crowd, commonly called ‘wannabes’ & RUBs. Easily identified by their ubiquitous attire, including SoA, and “Pipe Hitters Union” patches. Unlike the traditional 1 percenter, RUBs didn’t like the lack of reliability, durability and ability, so HD started offering their own engine upgrades, which were quite expensive for what you got. Time was you could outlay 1/3 the cost of the motorcycle in engine upgrades that wouldn’t even break 100 RWHP. On a 500 pound bike, 100 wheel hp isn’t terrible, but on an 850 pound cruiser, 2 up, it’s weak. Try wheezing up a mountain pass like that.

So HD started upping the engine options, adding luggage, and of late started bringing in actual luxury features, and even offered some competitive options to the Japanese manufacturers. Sure, you can get a Goldwing cheaper, it has more power, more features, more comfort over the long haul, it’s as smooth as a Singer sewing machine

But it’s not a true “one percenter” bike, so it won’t do for being in the club.

The same thing has happened to the Mustang. They don’t target the demographic they used to because the Rich Urban Mustang Owners - can we call them RUMOs? They’ll pay more for more. Unfortunately, this brings attention to ’snob’ customers who get their feelings hurt when a less prestigious American ‘muscle car’ out breaks them into turn one... That only needs to happen a few times until they start looking into Mustangs, and they impulse buy one and then whine and moan endlessly how it lacks fit and finish or does things their <insert brand here> doesn’t do.

You can still get a GT relatively inexpensive for the current times, it’s when you start adding on all the gizmos and features from the packages that prices really skyrocket. Again, targeted at the buyer who wants more and will pay more. People who will wait 18 months PLUS for delivery on an order!!!




Can I get an “AMEN”?

 

[Cauf E. Bean]

Her dream car is a Pagani or Lexus LFA

Raising them right! Though if she can actually afford a Pagani in her lifetime, she's doing better in life than I am!

 

[Cauf E. Bean]

You can still get a GT relatively inexpensive for the current times, it’s when you start adding on all the gizmos and features from the packages that prices really skyrocket. Again, targeted at the buyer who wants more and will pay more. People who will wait 18 months PLUS for delivery on an order!!!

I really liked your post - and yah, I am quite familiar with that HD trail of tears because I worked at a dealership on the service side right around the mid to late 90s through 2002. We did a lot of custom work at our shop, even creating one-off builds from the ground up. Our hard core customers came in for stage 3 big bore kits and stage 4 nitrous on the Evos, but when the Fat Heads came out, a lot of that started to change with the limitations that were just beginning and have grown from there.
I'm not one to bicker over the price - I knew what I was paying and what I was getting and I was happy with the deal. What I am seeing though, is the start of the process that pushes out that smaller segment of performance enhancers who want to make it faster. It's a V8; it's something that a lot of us enjoy; so much so, that the global automotive performance aftermarket segment, which includes performance-enhancing components, was valued at $580.71 billion in 2024 and is projected to grow significantly over the next decade. Ford is making poor decisions in excluding this group since they tend to be more loyal over a longer period of time (this, attributed to their familiarity with engine design, layout, function, etc. that they get from working on the same brand year after year).
Anyway, I'm just grousing at this point. I love my mustang, but hate that it's not really mine to do with what I want; computers have elevated the experience as a whole, but have now become gatekeepers that dictate restrictions on our usage.

 

[Cauf E. Bean]

But a $70k car should at least have freaking heated seats.

We Are Different. If your criteria for a sports car is heated seats, then the current gen/current configuration Mustang is a good choice (and i recognize you were pointing this heated seat quote about a corvette at a higher price point, but the sentiment applies.)
I bought an S650 because I wanted a Mustang after seeing Ken Block's Hoonicorn and just how excruciatingly fast it was. Yah, I knew I wasn't going to get the same AWD customized 1400 hp blown Roush/Yates hand-built engine, complete custom drivetrain, suspension, and nitromethane fuel tank, but I WAS buying into a legacy of customization, hotrods, going outside the fence, being a rebel - and I was EXCITED!
Unfortunately, it appears that heated seats is the new legacy of 'customized'; different colors or appearance accessories from 'Ford Performance' - whew wee! I better hold on. Or copy craps: every single monikered branding is the same: "We have a supercharger making almost 800hp! it's 3 liters! Look at us, we're so edgy and different because we're doing the exact same thing every other performance name brand is doing, but ours - OURS comes in red!' Ugh.

Unlock it and let me show you what real horsepower gains are.

I would bet fun car sales are down across the board.

I see a lot of the audience honed in on the declining sales and the price. Since I'm really focused on Mustangs, I'll agree with your statement that other fun cars may be suffering, too, but I don't really care. I think that the most 'performance focused Mustang fans' would care a lot less about out-the-door costs if the product had remained true to the Mustang legacy of performance, customization, and culture. Making it comfortable enough to appeal to Johnny executive or Grandma with an attitude is fine - but why alienate, by choice, those who have been there building and amplifying the Mustang brand with Ford since day one - the modders, the racers, and the aftermarket industry that made this brand so iconic.

Demand for American "ICE" Muscle is dying off.

Is this cause and effect, or effect and cause? ICE Muscle is under fire - agreed. But when Ford conforms to that mantra and purposefully excludes those who still enjoy ICE Muscle for its intended purpose - EVEN WHILE BUILDING A BEEFY V8 POWERED ICE - then Ford is really creating their own self-fulfilling prophecy.

In the old days if you wanted high performance you needed a sports car, now everyday cars are as fast or faster, easier to drive, easy to get in and out of, more practical and spacious and more economical.

And in fact, by locking down the ability to modify a vehicle that should be able to run circles around those 'every other car' brands, Ford is only speeding up this flywheel of 'meh, good enough.' I use my S650 as a daily driver - my kids have to live that old school 1970's-ish fold down the seat and squeeze into the back seats - but only so far as back and forth to school or church. But I didn't buy it for that purpose, I bought it to track it on the weekends; but since I can already tell you what speed and acceleration I'm limited to by the factory - it turns out it sucks as a fulfillment of my desires.

 

[robvas]

What would people think if Ford pulled a Dodge and did a 5,000lb electric AWD mustang? Looks similar to the current car, roughly the same size, fake exhaust noises and all.

 

[Snowflee17]

 

[Cauf E. Bean]

What would people think if Ford pulled a Dodge and did a 5,000lb electric AWD mustang? Looks similar to the current car, roughly the same size, fake exhaust noises and all.

I like the idea, but I would be a bigger proponent of a Hybrid solution - keeping the V8 ICE and adding EV motors to increase performance, ala the Koenigsegg Regera, or with smaller ICEs like the Gamera using a 2.0L 3-cylinder engine, which when combined with its EV motors results in 1,700 horsepower.

 

[Upacurb]

We Are Different. If your criteria for a sports car is heated seats....

LOL you and I think the same!!

 

[Zig]

only speeding up this flywheel of 'meh, good enough.'

^ which is a direct result of the reboot and restart to resolve, the microwave isn’t quick enough generation.

 

[roadpilot]

 

[Bikeman315]

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