Carbon Filter RWHP?

[smurfslayer]

Almost, I am a Doctor not a lawyer. But the rest is right.

I got bored in medical school, and gave it up early. I was fine with the curriculum, but I just couldn’t get past adopting customer service practices worse than a cable tv provider.

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[Farmer Fran]

I got bored in medical school, and gave it up early. I was fine with the curriculum, but I just couldn’t get past adopting customer service practices worse than a cable tv provider.

I was kidding. But I do have a degree in electricity and a couple dozen patents

 

[MCS]

LOL this thread has been entertaining. However, it has also made me think twice about getting the K&N Typhoon kit for my DH. What would be the point. I could slap on some Steeda filters in the existing air box and call it a day.

 

[roadpilot]

Almost, I am a Doctor not a lawyer. But the rest is right.

Jill, is that you?

 

[RLE55]

I can tell you that it didn't change a thing until AFTER I tuned it.

What he said

 

[RLE55]

even if they included a "one size fits all" tune, that's not as good as having THE car tuned once the CAI kits is installed.

And any reputable, experienced tuner will confirm the above.

 

[Zig]

I saw a guy do a good video where he did a bunch of different testing (carbon, new filter, full CAI) but cannot find the video. Pretty sure his were minimal but want a larger base to see.

EDIT: Found it - Pause at 11:14 ish

We Dyno The 2024 Mustang GT K&N Intake + Compare to Carbon Trap Delete & High Flow Drop-in Filters (youtube.com)

Just throwing it out there - when doing wrap it should be damp

 

[Zig]

When changing the wheels increases HP by around 10 it is a big red flag for me as it suggests it's an inertia dyno (calculates the time taken to accelerate a known mass / inertia) and that it's inertia is to low to be accurate if slightly changing the driveline inertia effects measured power.

Should really be using hub dyno's that actually absorb the energy being produced by the vehicle.

This is the facility i work with - https://iaaps.co.uk/about-us/our-facilities
Not cheap mind, we have an engine on a dyno bed there. Costs us $5000/day to run it + fuel

For the most part ‘dynos’ are used with the assumption all other things being equal but in reality that’s hardly ever the case, especially when tire pressure can impact results in excess of the degree of variability ?

 

[AlloyPony]

Well that's sort of a tricky statement that needs context, because the tune NEEDS the CAI in order to function correctly. I put my stock intake back on with my aftermarket tune once and it was a big no go. Car wouldn't even run correctly at idle much less under load. So, saying a CAI does nothing is sort of misleading. The CAI and the tune for the CAI go together.

For years and years Steeda has been showing +30 on the dyno with only a CAI and tune and they are a big enough company and have enough clout with Ford that I doubt they'd lie and be misleading on purpose. So I just don't buy the idea that removing obvious restrictions in airflow results in no gains.

 

[DevilDog]

I got bored in medical school, and gave it up early. I was fine with the curriculum, but I just couldn’t get past adopting customer service practices worse than a cable tv provider.

I always wanted to be a doctor, but I never had the patients.

 

[roadpilot]

Well that's sort of a tricky statement that needs context, because the tune NEEDS the CAI in order to function correctly. I put my stock intake back on with my aftermarket tune once and it was a big no go. Car wouldn't even run correctly at idle much less under load. So, saying a CAI does nothing is sort of misleading. The CAI and the tune for the CAI go together.

Well, of course a canned tune that came with a specific CAI will be better with that CAI installed than with the stock CAI installed. That's common sense.

But I sure hope you're not claiming that getting a car that still has the stock CAI professionally tuned is a no go or is inferior to a car with a CAI and the canned tune that came with it. That's patently false.

Remember, you can have plenty of other upgrades and mods that a custom tune will take advantage of over a stock tune or the canned tune from a CAI. Further, if you have an aftermarket CAI and other mods/upgrades done, a custom tune is FAR better than the stock tune or the CAI canned tune.

For years and years Steeda has been showing +30 on the dyno with only a CAI and tune and they are a big enough company and have enough clout with Ford that I doubt they'd lie and be misleading on purpose. So I just don't buy the idea that removing obvious restrictions in airflow results in no gains.

Years ago, that may have been the case. But today's OEM CAIs are just as efficient as aftermarket CAIs (for purposes of street driven vehicles). In short, the airflow is no better nor no worse when compared to OEM.

Gains made by swapping one filter media for another is largely well within the margins of error and accounting for all the variables that can cause the exact same vehicle to return slightly different results compared to itself. Now if a filter media change netted you 25 HP on the exact same vehicle under the exact same conditions, that would be different. But they don't.

 

[Wiley Marmot]

Remember: This is the internet. EVERYONE on here is a mechanical engineer either by profession or in our spare time, when we’re done doing charitable work, after working part time as a partner at our law firm after having worked in law enforcement after a distinguished military career as a tier one operator.

Damn! I didn't realize I'd sent you a copy of my resume!

NOTE to self: Update employment mailing list.

Let me add to @roadpilot's last post r.e.

Tunes and Kit: Prior to my 93 O dyno tune on my 2016 Focus RS at Livernois Motorsports; I'd discussed the possibility of swapping out the K & N CAI the car came with for a Mishimoto CAI (which I viewed as much more efficient than the K & N; as the K & N was a wide open CAI box in a hot engine compartment and the Mishimoto as completely enclosed escept for the cold air inlet). LMS told me to be sure I had the care's subsystems in a "final" configuration as the tune would be to that specific subsystem combo, and any changes I made "subsequent" to the tune might prove detrimental to performance, or worse, vehicle operation. Nuff said! I left things alone after the tune.

OEM Intake & Exhaust: My RS came with after aftermarket intake (see above) and exhaust (cheap nasty unit--had to swap it out for a Borla to get rid of the smell, drone, and noise), and still had them + the LMS 93 O tune when I traded it. The final dyno pull at LMS was 340 HP at the wheels in 2 wheel drive, and 391 TQ. Here's the kicker that goes to OEM intake and exhaust efiiciency as stated by @roadpilot ; there were at least two RS forum members whose RS's were getting 500+ HP and similar TQ compared to my numbers; on dyno pulls with OEM intakes and exhausts.

 

[roadpilot]

Remember: This is the internet. EVERYONE on here is a mechanical engineer either by profession or in our spare time, when we’re done doing charitable work, after working part time as a partner at our law firm after having worked in law enforcement after a distinguished military career as a tier one operator.

Most of our MEs are pretty good. Not all, but most.

 

[Dave2013M3]

So, are you calling Tony out for making the dyno results up?

Or do you think he never actually did dyno testing to start with?

I mean, he’s presenting what he represents as fact. You’re stating your opinion. Not much middle ground here.

The issue is the S550 had a single throttle body. The dual throttle body setup of the S650 probably rectified the airflow restriction of the S550.

 

[Tony's Fords and Mustangs]

I wanted to jump in here to clarify a few things as to what I did with my 22 Mach 1. I had been trying to figure out where the 10 HP went for a few of weeks. I owned a 2021 Mach 1 but lost it when a young lady decided to practice her pit maneuver skills on me in the rain. I replaced that car with a 2022 and I was a bit pissed that it was down 10 HP so I wanted to know why.

I found a buried press release from a low level media consultant at Ford that mentioned the HC trap as one of the reasons. I wanted to see if that was answer and since it was a blockage in the intake that made sense.

Most higher up Ford people wouldn't/couldn't officially say that was issue due it being environmental part. The HC trap captures hydro carbon released from the throttle body on shut down. It does nothing while you are driving except block air flow.

I wasn't going to put out a video unless I could prove it. I took the car to dyno had them do a pull for a baseline, they went to lunch and didn't want to watch what I was going to do because of environmental regulations. I pulled the trap and we did another pull. I picked up 18 HP. The air temp would have been a couple of degrees hotter than the first pull and the car had 45 minutes to cool down. Same dyno, same day.

As to click bait. I am retired. I jumped into youtube to give me something to do with my freetime. The $ I make on youtube isn't much. That video still has not paid for the dyno pull costs let alone the time spent making the video. I shared the video because it could help other 22/23 Mach 1 owners get back their lost 10ish horsepower. Is 10 HP a lot? No. it isn't. But it was free and easy HP. I had already done the legwork and data logging and thought I proved my point to the best of my ability.

As to anyone that has an issue with Youtubers. Everyone is different that includes Youtubers. Some people look at it as a way to earn an income and are very honest. Others are willing to do or say anything to make a a couple of bucks. I assure you I am not the latter. I have no sponsors or sponsored content because I turn them down consistently. I make mostly historical video on Ford products because I like Ford products and like to share what I learn in the process. If I find something or do something that can be helpful to others I try to share it. I made a video about the active exhaust issue on the S550 and I know that has helped quite a few people.

I cannot speak to a 2024 Mustang. I have yet to look at what Ford did with the 5.0 in that car. It may have more than enough airflow from the factory and the HC trap(S) are not causing the blockage it did on my 2022. The HC trap on the earlier cars were added mid-stream and perhaps the the 2024 was built with the HC trap in mind.

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