GTD Weight Revealed

[Katastrophe]

Yes, I agree. I think I was being a little over encompassing when I said “absolutely nothing“. But this comment is what I was getting at.

Of course weather, ambient/track temps, tire compounds and all other factors can affect this.

The GTD on its first run did amazingly well. Hopefully everything that was learned on that run will prove useful in improving their times next time out.

Oh, 100%. I can't wait to see what that car will do in favorable conditions.

It's a shame they never shipped out a DH HP to see what that car is capable of either. I'm always more intrigued and impressed by the 'pedestrian' cars punching above their weight class than these uber-rich, unobtainable machines, personally.

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[9secondko]

Not to intentionally stoke the flames here, but let's not forget that the GT350 was also developed at the 'Ring...and that was well before it's debut as a 2015 model. Ford has history there...they've been running laps/testing there for well over a decade on their performance models.

To be fair to the GTD program, though...they 100% need to return and run laps in more ideal conditions.

Turned out amazing too. not bad at all. Especially for a $49,000 car.

Today, some of the people on this forum would tell you thst such a car could not exist unless it was over 100k.

The reality is it just takes the passion to build such a thing in the parts of the development team and the balls needed on the part of the board to greenlight the thing.

Definitely need to take the GTD back and get some respect. There is no way the time is what it is with its development effort.

 

[9secondko]

Yet no one said they had to do it on their first attempt - and that is my simple point, with lists supporting that this is exactly the same path that every other car on the list has travelled.

Best in all, J

Hopefully you’re right. If it ends up actually being THAT much faster snd beating the gt3rs time, then the GTD will have earned its respect for sure.

 

[OppoLock]

S650's got a fat chassis to start

Bigger wheels, brakes, tires, cooling, suspension, engine, aero, gearbox all equal more weight. Carbon fiber body panels and magnesium wheels don't negate this

In case anyone was still confused thinking the GTD was a 'racecar made legal for the road,' no. It's still an S650 made better. Like best-better, but it's still a dang production car

Ford was smart to confuse people by making it look like a carbon-copy of their GT3 car

Not surprised by the weight

 

[Epiphany]

Let’s don’t get our collective shorts too bunched up just yet. There has to be a mistake somewhere.

Just no way 4343 could be correct.

The 4300+ weight has to be a mistake

There is no error or mistake. In the application(s) that Ford submitted to the EPA/CARB for certification, Ford lists the weight of the 2025 Mustang GTD as being 4,343 lbs curb weight. To be clear, this is the definition the EPA is bound to use for curb weight...

The GTD tank capacity is 16.1 (that is buried in the application as well) gallons. That equates to 97lbs of fuel. So 4,246 lbs with a dry tank.

Note a listed GVWR of 4,800 lbs and a HP rating of 800. That was Ford's power approximation at the time (that they claimed would come in higher than that when finalized - and did).

All the talk about why the weight. The above say's "Drive Mode While Testing, 4-WHEEL DRIVE" ????????????????????

That's the dyno they used for that test.

It's made clear in a number of field entries that the vehicle is 2WD.

so, how many sources have we seen to confirm the GTD weight? If only one so far i think we should wait until someone else confirms the earlier posted weight.

Fair enough but I would argue it isn't the number or sources but rather the accuracy of a given source. Ford has chosen to cloak certain aspects of the GTD program in secrecy (witness the NDA's that buyers must swear to live by). And I think it is clear that Ford is aware of the GTD's heft and the negativity surrounding it. As a result, they have chosen to limit transparency and not be open about how heavy the GTD is. The clock is ticking and eventually they'll have to cave and tell the public. I knew the data would be in their EPA submission and I searched for the results for some time (the results were held and not released immediately). I'm happy to share what Ford wouldn't because I find it a bit disingenuous. So until Ford corporate can't hide it any longer, certified results will have to do. And make no mistake, the EPA expects complete and total honesty in the data submitted to them for review, verification, and ultimately granting an approval via a certification.

A relevant snippet of a guidance letter to manufacturers regarding reporting accuracy...

The result of all the data submitted allows the vehicle to be sold and driven in the United States. I can't think of proof from anyone that has been better vetted than a Certificate of Conformity from the EPA. Here's the top portion of the GTD's thumbs up.

 

[RebelMan]

Lol. Pot, meet kettle.

You completely DCT like the track isn’t a thing.

We are on the GTD thread. The Gtd isn’t going to scare any of the big boys with its straight line prowess. So that’s the context of comparing it to the zr1, which has already destroyed the records of every track it’s been to. Every. Single. One. The Gtd has been to one track and Ford had to settle for “yay! Barely Sub-7! Whoa hoo…”

The plaid is a bit faster in a straight line due to AWD and the inherent instant torque of ev. But it will get humiliated on the track next to the zr1.

So it’s not misinformation. It’s fact. Look it up. Don’t mislead people just because you don’t like how things are.

Kettle meet fire. LOL

Let me explain what it means to be Mustang... It's about overcoming obstacles and becoming greatness.

Nobody expected the diminutive Mustang (aka Pony Car) to outsell BY FAR every other brand model when it first hit the ground, but it did. Nobody expected the Mustang to put on "muscle" and go on to win its class in Daytona 24 three years later or back-to-back Trans-AM championship races less than five years later, but it did.

Nobody expected the Mustang to survive the oil embargo when so many others didn't, but it did. Nobody expected the Mustang to avoid the chopping block that very nearly almost happened back in late 80's, but it did. Nobody expected the Mustang to beat the M3 on the track, but it did. And very certainly, NOBODY expected to be cross shopping the Mustang with an M car as is happening today, but it did!

The Mustang GTD is the fully realized culmination of all that has happened before, and which it continues to build on to this day. People have ridiculed the name plate as being just affordable performance and not something that you would compare to others of more affluent stature. But now that performance has largely caught up, the price tag has too, and people ridicule it for that, which is absurd.

No real Mustang enthusiast cares about the achievements of the ZR1 or any other car for that matter. What they care about is what IT has and continues to achieve. Has the ZR1 run a sub 7 second Nürburgring? NOPE! The GTD has and it was on a less than ideal (wet) day. Has the ZR1 podiumed at the 24 Hours of Le Mans for its class? NOPE! The GTD has and it took third place. Has the ZR1 podiumed at the Rolex 24 at Daytona competition? NOPE! The GTD has and it took FIRST place for its class.

We can go back and forth all day long on this ridiculous pissing contest and at the end of the day come to the unavoidable conclusion that you will never be a Mustang enthusiast no matter how much you pretend to be. The MUSTANG GDT is a GREAT CAR PERIOD and the fact that you are comparing it to the World Breaker Hulk ZR1 proves it.

 

[Zig]

There is no error or mistake. In the application(s) that Ford submitted to the EPA/CARB for certification, Ford lists the weight of the 2025 Mustang GTD as being 4,343 lbs curb weight. To be clear, this is the definition the EPA is bound to use for curb weight...

The GTD tank capacity is 16.1 (that is buried in the application as well) gallons. That equates to 97lbs of fuel. So 4,246 lbs with a dry tank.

Note a listed GVWR of 4,800 lbs and a HP rating of 800. That was Ford's power approximation at the time (that they claimed would come in higher than that when finalized - and did).


That's the dyno they used for that test.

It's made clear in a number of field entries that the vehicle is 2WD.

Fair enough but I would argue it isn't the number or sources but rather the accuracy of a given source. Ford has chosen to cloak certain aspects of the GTD program in secrecy (witness the NDA's that buyers must swear to live by). And I think it is clear that Ford is aware of the GTD's heft and the negativity surrounding it. As a result, they have chosen to limit transparency and not be open about how heavy the GTD is. The clock is ticking and eventually they'll have to cave and tell the public. I knew the data would be in their EPA submission and I searched for the results for some time (the results were held and not released immediately). I'm happy to share what Ford wouldn't because I find it a bit disingenuous. So until Ford corporate can't hide it any longer, certified results will have to do. And make no mistake, the EPA expects complete and total honesty in the data submitted to them for review, verification, and ultimately granting an approval via a certification.

A relevant snippet of a guidance letter to manufacturers regarding reporting accuracy...

The result of all the data submitted allows the vehicle to be sold and driven in the United States. I can't think of proof from anyone that has been better vetted than a Certificate of Conformity from the EPA. Here's the top portion of the GTD's thumbs up.

“Certificate of Conformity from the EPA.” So it can be done and electricity is not the only way?

 

[Epiphany]

Well, it sure hasn't gotten any easier. If you saw the test methodology and requirements...pure insanity. Although this may change with the new Administration.

If you compare the 2025 Predator engine (in the GTD) vs that of the 2022 Predator (in the GT500) you see how much more stringent the emission standards are and you can't help but be impressed that Ford engineers got it to pass.

One of the changes made to the engine is the introduction of air into the exhaust stream at the cylinder head and exhaust manifold. There are new small tube passageways built into the manifolds for this and electronic pump hardware atop and at the front of the engine. I hate seeing this, having watched it like a cancer in the 70's and 80's but here we are. If the standards are dialed back, some of this may be one year only - I'm hoping for anyway.

 

[Bikeman315]

Kettle meet fire. LOL

Let me explain what it means to be Mustang... It's about overcoming obstacles and becoming greatness.

Nobody expected the diminutive Mustang (aka Pony Car) to outsell BY FAR every other brand model when it first hit the ground, but it did. Nobody expected the Mustang to put on "muscle" and go on to win its class in Daytona 24 three years later or back-to-back Trans-AM championship races less than five years later, but it did.

Nobody expected the Mustang to survive the oil embargo when so many others didn't, but it did. Nobody expected the Mustang to avoid the chopping block that very nearly almost happened back in late 80's, but it did. Nobody expected the Mustang to beat the M3 on the track, but it did. And very certainly, NOBODY expected to be cross shopping the Mustang with an M car as is happening today, but it did!

The Mustang GTD is the fully realized culmination of all that has happened before, and which it continues to build on to this day. People have ridiculed the name plate as being just affordable performance and not something that you would compare to others of more affluent stature. But now that performance has largely caught up, the price tag has too, and people ridicule it for that, which is absurd.

No real Mustang enthusiast cares about the achievements of the ZR1 or any other car for that matter. What they care about is what IT has and continues to achieve. Has the ZR1 run a sub 7 second Nürburgring? NOPE! The GTD has and it was on a less than ideal (wet) day. Has the ZR1 podiumed at the 24 Hours of Le Mans for its class? NOPE! The GTD has and it took third place. Has the ZR1 podiumed at the Rolex 24 at Daytona competition? NOPE! The GTD has and it took FIRST place for its class.

We can go back and forth all day long on this ridiculous pissing contest and at the end of the day come to the unavoidable conclusion that you will never be a Mustang enthusiast no matter how much you pretend to be. The MUSTANG GDT is a GREAT CAR PERIOD and the fact that you are comparing it to the World Breaker Hulk ZR1 proves it.

Ps. Do yourself a favor and ignore @9secondko. He’s a broken, boring, record.

 

[young at heart]

In my mind there’s no point of comparison between the two.

The GT500 was basically a modified version of an existing consumer level street car, while the GTD is supposed to be a dedicated race car engineered from the pavement up for that one purpose.

It seems very obvious to me.

Well, yeah it seemed obvious to me at the time but apparently I was dead wrong about the dedicated race car thing. Shows how much I actually know about the GTD given I typically only really get interested in things I’m a potential prospect for. Sure this is an exciting car but I’m never gonna own one. I get much more excited over GTs and Dark Horses because they’re something I can own and enjoy.

I understand the concept of a halo car but I’m not sure many guys are gonna buy an EcoBoost because of image transfer from the GTD. So I guess if that’s the real weight it is what it is. Weight sure doesn’t matter to GT500 buyers, does it?

I do have to say it’s hard to imagine spending $400K for a street car that wouldn’t significantly embarrass my $68K HP DH on a 20-mile stretch of GA mountain roads on an average traffic day. But in reality maybe it doesn’t matter since the only cruising they’re likely to do is on a trailer to Mecum or Barrett-Jackson soon as the two years is up.

 

[robvas]

I understand the concept of a halo car but I’m not sure many guys are gonna buy an EcoBoost because of image transfer from the GTD.

EcoBoost guys love the GT500 front bumper, they are going to love the GDT wings once they go for sale

 

[MaddNomad]

Kettle meet fire. LOL

Let me explain what it means to be Mustang... It's about overcoming obstacles and becoming greatness.

Nobody expected the diminutive Mustang (aka Pony Car) to outsell BY FAR every other brand model when it first hit the ground, but it did. Nobody expected the Mustang to put on "muscle" and go on to win its class in Daytona 24 three years later or back-to-back Trans-AM championship races less than five years later, but it did.

Nobody expected the Mustang to survive the oil embargo when so many others didn't, but it did. Nobody expected the Mustang to avoid the chopping block that very nearly almost happened back in late 80's, but it did. Nobody expected the Mustang to beat the M3 on the track, but it did. And very certainly, NOBODY expected to be cross shopping the Mustang with an M car as is happening today, but it did!

The Mustang GTD is the fully realized culmination of all that has happened before, and which it continues to build on to this day. People have ridiculed the name plate as being just affordable performance and not something that you would compare to others of more affluent stature. But now that performance has largely caught up, the price tag has too, and people ridicule it for that, which is absurd.

No real Mustang enthusiast cares about the achievements of the ZR1 or any other car for that matter. What they care about is what IT has and continues to achieve. Has the ZR1 run a sub 7 second Nürburgring? NOPE! The GTD has and it was on a less than ideal (wet) day. Has the ZR1 podiumed at the 24 Hours of Le Mans for its class? NOPE! The GTD has and it took third place. Has the ZR1 podiumed at the Rolex 24 at Daytona competition? NOPE! The GTD has and it took FIRST place for its class.

We can go back and forth all day long on this ridiculous pissing contest and at the end of the day come to the unavoidable conclusion that you will never be a Mustang enthusiast no matter how much you pretend to be. The MUSTANG GDT is a GREAT CAR PERIOD and the fact that you are comparing it to the World Breaker Hulk ZR1 proves it.

Ps. Do yourself a favor and ignore @9secondko. He’s a broken, boring, record.

I mean even though I don’t agree with his GTD take (I do see where he’s coming from) Him being disappointed in the GTD doesn’t mean he isn’t a Mustang fan.

People say crazier/contradicting things that would make them seem less of Mustang fans.

Everybody knows it’s a crazy feat that an American coupe has lasted so long while competing with different classes of performance. Mustang did that without changing into other things. (For example Charger being rwd coupe, fwd car in 80s, 4 door in modernity) that’s why it’s unique and only can be mentioned with the likes of Corvette and 911, even at a cheaper price.

I’m ready for the next special Stang to come out so we can talk about something else.

 

[Ewheels]

Keep the 5.2L but ditch the supercharger.
Ditch the expensive Multimatic shocks and replace with regular Magneride.
Keep the body parts but replace carbon with aluminum/fiberglass.
Keep the transaxle.

Now this would be a car I would be very excited about. Probably right around the $100k mark.

 

[robvas]

$100k and no supercharge? No way

 

[Epiphany]

Believe it or not, Ewheels isn't too far off from something that just may make it to production. There is quite a bit brewing in automotive related politics at the moment that may influence corporate decision making that could very much benefit us enthusiasts. Not sure about keeping the transaxle but would substituting a DCT be good enough?

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