New ZR1 hit 233mph

[broncoboy22]

the vette has never been a mustang competitor.

But a Gtd? Def. A vette competitor. And more expensive to boot.

It should also be worth more as well most likely. Not sure about the zr1 in that regard. Especially with the rumored zora being faster

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[9secondko]

A couple thoughts as to why GTD and ZR1 aren’t really competing.
1) GTD was announced well before ZR1. Yeah, we all kinda thought a ZR1 was coming but it wasn’t announced at that point. Ford had this planned for some time and highly likely without a ZR1 in mind
2)Listen to Farley and Multimatic. They continue calling out the Europeans (and Porsche in particular). That’s their competition, at least in their eyes.
3)You can go to any Chevy dealer and order a ZR1 (setting aside allocations for a minute). You cannot do so with a GTD and as far as I know they’ve given out all the allocations now. Now it’s just a waiting game for the GTD folks.
4)To me, GTD is the Mustang equivalent to the Ford GT. Race car made for the street. ZR1 will very much be track capable, especially with the big aero package, but it’s still a street car base designed to race. Some nuances there but I think important ones.
5)Sticker price on the GTD is going to be a good amount higher than ZR1. Now, ADM’s on the ZR1 will close that gap significantly I believe, unless GM really clamps down on that like they supposedly did with Z06.

I do think Ford wants to be the first US manufacturer to go sub-7 at the Ring, so from that standpoint yes, they are competing with ZR1. But only to do it first. There’s a good chance ZR1 puts up a better lap time but Ford wants to do it first. But from a sales perspective, no I truly don’t believe they are competing. If those that got GTD allocations start dropping them for ZR1’s in significant numbers, then it becomes a different story.

Again, just my $0.02. Maybe Ford will actually chime in here and tell us if they view Corvette and specifically ZR1 as a competitor.

dude They’re competitors. Two firs. Two seats. Expensive. The GTD isn’t really a mustang. It’s a “race car.” Remember?

stip trying to throw this “they’re not really competitors reality distortion field over these two cars.

it’s true that the mustang - even gt500 - is not a traditional competitor to the corvette.
But the Gtd is a different story altogether.

if the zbeats it (definitely will in acceleration and top speed, debateable in handling. We will wait and see) then it beats it. On the flip side, if the Gtd wins, then ford really has something to crow about.

but the fact is, these two unobtanium cars are direct competitors. The Gtd isn’t just a track focused car. It’s meant to be fast period. But the Nurburgring time is what will net ford the accolades if all is going according to plan. The zr1 is a Jack of all trades as well, but with superior traction, weight distribution, horsepower, torque, and aero. It’s a fairly stacked deck. And the zr1 will cost less.

 

[9secondko]

It should also be worth more as well most likely. Not sure about the zr1 in that regard. Especially with the rumored zora being faster

the Zoe’s appears to be leaking out already and will stomp the zr1. But the zr1 will also beat the Gtd, in most metrics, if not all. Hate to say it, but it looks to be undeniable. If only Ford would have went TT instead of SC. then it would be more of a level playing field with the only two advantages going to the vette being aero and layout.m

if money weren’t in the equation, I’m picking the Gtd because it’s a mustang and because it’s one of the best looking hot rods I’ve ever seen. And sounds amazing. But the vette has definitely got some undeniable advantages that can’t be overlooked or pretended away.

 

[broncoboy22]

the Zoe’s appears to be leaking out already and will stomp the zr1. But the zr1 will also beat the Gtd, in most metrics, if not all. Hate to say it, but it looks to be undeniable. If only Ford would have went TT instead of SC. then it would be more of a level playing field with the only two advantages going to the vette being aero and layout.m

if money weren’t in the equation, I’m picking the Gtd because it’s a mustang and because it’s one of the best looking hot rods I’ve ever seen. And sounds amazing. But the vette has definitely got some undeniable advantages that can’t be overlooked or pretended away.

That could all be true but I’m guessing the GTD will be a better “investment” than a ZR1. Ford GT’s didn’t lose their value and last gen ZR1s were faster as well if I recall

 

[kagemusha2662]

That could all be true but I’m guessing the GTD will be a better “investment” than a ZR1. Ford GT’s didn’t lose their value and last gen ZR1s were faster as well if I recall

Owners can't even sell the car for 2 years. Granted, they will probably be able to sell at a profit, but that's 2 years where your money is locked/down the drain. And if you do want to sell later, you'll probably want to keep it in the garage safe and sound. And also pray that you don't have any use for that money for the next 2 years. These cars aren't cars for actual drivers/car enthusiasts anymore, it's just a car to flip for profit. That's why I'm starting to not even care about the Nurburgring time because 99% of these cars are not gonna see the track at all. It's the same thing with any kind of hobby these days, it's not about the hobby itself, it's about just flipping it for profit.

 

[broncoboy22]

Owners can't even sell the car for 2 years. Granted, they will probably be able to sell at a profit, but that's 2 years where your money is locked/down the drain. And if you do want to sell later, you'll probably want to keep it in the garage safe and sound. And also pray that you don't have any use for that money for the next 2 years. These cars aren't cars for actual drivers/car enthusiasts anymore, it's just a car to flip for profit. That's why I'm starting to not even care about the Nurburgring time because 99% of these cars are not gonna see the track at all. It's the same thing with any kind of hobby these days, it's not about the hobby itself, it's about just flipping it for profit.

Yup, but people that can afford to drop ~$400k on a vehicle would be just fine sitting on it for 2 years. Or at least if they are financially responsible they should be hhaha


It absolutely sucks 99% of them won’t be driven. I think a few YouTubers will track them even if only for content. I’m sure Shmee150 will.

personally it’s just cool Mustang eye candy. But for practical purposes I’m much more interested in the next SE. I hope whatever it is it comes in a 6-speed. If it’s auto only I will try to buy a DH and throw a Roush blower on it most likely

 

[MAGS1]

dude They’re competitors. Two firs. Two seats. Expensive. The GTD isn’t really a mustang. It’s a “race car.” Remember?

stip trying to throw this “they’re not really competitors reality distortion field over these two cars.

it’s true that the mustang - even gt500 - is not a traditional competitor to the corvette.
But the Gtd is a different story altogether.

if the zbeats it (definitely will in acceleration and top speed, debateable in handling. We will wait and see) then it beats it. On the flip side, if the Gtd wins, then ford really has something to crow about.

but the fact is, these two unobtanium cars are direct competitors. The Gtd isn’t just a track focused car. It’s meant to be fast period. But the Nurburgring time is what will net ford the accolades if all is going according to plan. The zr1 is a Jack of all trades as well, but with superior traction, weight distribution, horsepower, torque, and aero. It’s a fairly stacked deck. And the zr1 will cost less.

Then why is every word out of Ford’s mouth when GTD competition is brought up Porsche? That’s not even my opinion, watch the Road to the Ring teaser that dropped a few days ago. You hear the Ford/Multimatic team say Europeans and Porsche. Not one word about Corvette and the ZR1. So don’t even listen to my opinions, I don’t give a shit. But Ford is telling you exactly who their competitors are with GTD.

Have a great evening

 

[kagemusha2662]

Then why is every word out of Ford’s mouth when GTD competition is brought up Porsche? That’s not even my opinion, watch the Road to the Ring teaser that dropped a few days ago. You hear the Ford/Multimatic team say Europeans and Porsche. Not one word about Corvette and the ZR1. So don’t even listen to my opinions, I don’t give a shit. But Ford is telling you exactly who their competitors are with GTD.

Have a great evening

i mean they can say whatever they want. The price of the car is still the price of the car. That's what everyone is getting at here. When you price your car near corvette and other super cars, then that's the realistic competition that you're gonna have. That's the discussion around the mustang in general nowadays since the price keeps increasing. They're pricing themselves into a whole other segment of cars, so the consumer will look at all cars available in the price range and decide accordingly.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

...all this talk about unobtanium cars really makes me wish the AMG GT55/63 weren't unobtanium cars. AWD V8 2+2 Grand Tourer? Heck Yes Please!

 

[9secondko]

That could all be true but I’m guessing the GTD will be a better “investment” than a ZR1. Ford GT’s didn’t lose their value and last gen ZR1s were faster as well if I recall

im not doubting that. The GTD will be more rare. And we all kind of expected the corvette to enter lambo, Ferrari, Porsche territory anyway when it went midengine.

nobody ever expected the Mustang to threaten these guys and so the GTD is already a legend. I doubt we’d have seen the zr1 pushed so hard if not for the GTD. They’d likely go for 850-900 go and call it.

so the GTD is already in a league of its own in that it’s “just” a pony car whooping up on some of the biggest dogs out there.

will definitely hold its value (or more likely increase in value) and be more of a collectors item later on.

 

[9secondko]

...all this talk about unobtanium cars really makes me wish the AMG GT55/63 weren't unobtanium cars. AWD V8 2+2 Grand Tourer? Heck Yes Please!

those are pretty dang sweet cars. Couldn’t stop reviewing them yesterday. Really really nice. Look great and go great.

 

[9secondko]

Then why is every word out of Ford’s mouth when GTD competition is brought up Porsche? That’s not even my opinion, watch the Road to the Ring teaser that dropped a few days ago. You hear the Ford/Multimatic team say Europeans and Porsche. Not one word about Corvette and the ZR1. So don’t even listen to my opinions, I don’t give a shit. But Ford is telling you exactly who their competitors are with GTD.

Have a great evening

it’s a common tactic when you don’t want people comparing you to cars thst beat you. Ford targeted Porsche. They’ll very highly likely exceed that target. But they were blindsided by the zr1. While ford target a known commodity, GM target the unknown Gtd. It was very present is some comments mentioned at the zr1 unveiling.

also multimatic and ford brought up the Porsche target before the zr1 was even a thing. So they didn’t have anything to say about it.

But the harsh reality is Ford wants no part of that comparison - so you’ll not hear them make it. GM really executed the stealth bomb perfectly. Kind of like Ford did with the 662 hp gt500 thst ate the 580 go ZL1s lunch (GM thought they’d beat the 550 up gt500). And that’s why you don’t just do “good enough folks. You swing for the fences in all categories.

the irony is that ford is way ahead of GM on twin turbo engine engineering and many other things. They really should have preemptively ended the conversation. But that where the phrase “live and learn” comes in. Sometimes you just have to congratulate the other side on shrewdness.

 

[MAGS1]

it’s a common tactic when you don’t want people comparing you to cars thst beat you. Ford targeted Porsche. They’ll very highly likely exceed that target. But they were blindsided by the zr1. While ford target a known commodity, GM target the unknown Gtd. It was very present is some comments mentioned at the zr1 unveiling.

also multimatic and ford brought up the Porsche target before the zr1 was even a thing. So they didn’t have anything to say about it.

But the harsh reality is Ford wants no part of that comparison - so you’ll not hear them make it. GM really executed the stealth bomb perfectly. Kind of like Ford did with the 662 hp gt500 thst ate the 580 go ZL1s lunch (GM thought they’d beat the 550 up gt500). And that’s why you don’t just do “good enough folks. You swing for the fences in all categories.

the irony is that ford is way ahead of GM on twin turbo engine engineering and many other things. They really should have preemptively ended the conversation. But that where the phrase “live and learn” comes in. Sometimes you just have to congratulate the other side on shrewdness.

With the amount of time it takes to engineer a car, ZR1 was already well thought out and designed before GTD was even announced. Could GM have tweaked it a bit once GTD was announced? Sure and maybe they did. But they didn’t have horsepower numbers or anything on GTD at that point.

Corvette has always done Corvette things without any real consideration as to what Mustang was doing. And vice versa. I find it hard to believe they all of a sudden started now.

If the ZR1 pricing comes in substantially below GTD, it will be an absolute performance bargain. I don’t deny that at all. I was a GM guy for 25 years before I bought my first Mustang almost 5 years ago now. I still love Corvettes with the C7 being my favorite. But for me, I think the GTD will be the better overall track car, even if it’s slower around the Ring than the ZR1. There’s other tracks where the ZR1 can’t use all its power and top speed and that’s where GTD will shine.

And frankly, I’m glad both these cars are being made keeping high HP V8’s alive here in the US. Otherwise we wouldn’t even have the opportunity to have this discussion. And that would be unfortunate.

 

[MAGS1]

i mean they can say whatever they want. The price of the car is still the price of the car. That's what everyone is getting at here. When you price your car near corvette and other super cars, then that's the realistic competition that you're gonna have. That's the discussion around the mustang in general nowadays since the price keeps increasing. They're pricing themselves into a whole other segment of cars, so the consumer will look at all cars available in the price range and decide accordingly.

It’s still probably a $100k delta in price before ADM between the ZR1 and GTD. GTD is firmly in Porsche pricing, ZR1 is creeping in for sure.

As for Mustang and Vette pricing in general, a base Mustang is still about $20k less than a base C8. Even as you increase trim levels and options, there’s still a healthy delta there. Mustang has gotten pricey, no doubt (I have an S650 ordered that cost nearly $20k more than my 2022 GT, a lot of that is how I optioned both). But it’s still a good value and a reasonable price vs the C8.

Like I’ve said several times now, they’re different cars. One is a front engine, 4 seater (debate away on how useful the rear seats actually are) and the other is a mid engine 2 seater. There’s more than a few folks over on 6G that have “upgraded” from S550 to a C8, but most have called it exactly that. The next step up in the performance car segment.

Appreciate all the back and forth, it’s an interesting discussion and I appreciate the different viewpoints here. I’m just sharing mine

 

[broncoboy22]

im not doubting that. The GTD will be more rare. And we all kind of expected the corvette to enter lambo, Ferrari, Porsche territory anyway when it went midengine.

nobody ever expected the Mustang to threaten these guys and so the GTD is already a legend. I doubt we’d have seen the zr1 pushed so hard if not for the GTD. They’d likely go for 850-900 go and call it.

so the GTD is already in a league of its own in that it’s “just” a pony car whooping up on some of the biggest dogs out there.

will definitely hold its value (or more likely increase in value) and be more of a collectors item later on.

Agreed. I’ll concede that the Vette seems to be better bang for the buck. Which is usually the stang’s bread and butter

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