Report: Mustang AWD and Hybrid Plans Cancelled

[because_murica]

there’s no stopping an AWD from at least matching road course performance, more likely improving on it, so I think the entire crux of your argument is dead in the water.

an AWD setup would go faster in a straight line - probably more mustang guys are doing the 1320 than road course, but AWD on a road course is also a good thing. It’s a win-win.

as far as AWD EVs spanking the mustang in acceleration, you are treating the mustang as though it’s not allowed to advance, but must remain just like - in your words - it’s dead and dying competition. Except that competition isn’t dead. It’s going EV. THR CAMARO is dead. For now. It has died before. Dodge isn’t going that route. So that’s not an accurate statement anyway. If you relegate the Mustang to bygone days, then it dies. But if you embrace the switch from car station to fuel injection, dual clutch transmissions, overhead cams from pushrods, etc. then it’s time to embrace the next leap - AWD and quite likely electric or hybrid as well.

the narrow thinking goes “mustang must be RWD and gas only.” But broad horizons, forward thinking goes “ the market is changing and politics have much to do with it. EVs are coming in force. How will the Mustang exist when a standalone v8 engine is no longer viable due to restrictions placed on them? How will it be a performance leader when most of the vanilla EVs will have AWD and instant torque EV power trains? Let’s find solutions to making the mustang be not only relevant, but better than ever.” AWD and hi-po EV/hybrid are obvious low hanging fruit solutions. Instead of heads buried in the sand, enthusiasts need to be thinking of how this works into the future. The Mustang has been the accessible exotic. Customizable to the buyers tastes, iconic in style, exotic in performance, yet somewhat affordable up to the GT trim level.

The Mustang must change in order to stay iconic, it must remain customizable, and it must have exotic performance levels available relative to the market around it. That’s simply how it is. It will remain true to the spirit of the car, but more capable than ever as a result of more capable competition.

AWD IS A GOOD THING. It’s a performance benefit. Period.

No, my argument is very much sound. S650 is clearly a swan song for the enthusiasts, not a massive leap forward that you (and others) were hoping for -and enthusiasts (the real ones at least) will always prefer RWD. And, I never one asserted that AWD wouldn't increase the Mustang's performance, of course it would. But, then it's not a Mustang. I think Ford wants the world to see the last ICE Mustang die the same way it began - V8, RWD, Manual.

I don't think any legitimate enthusiast cares what the future holds for Mustang and the like. That's because the future is quite frankly depressing. I don't want hybrid, I don't want EV. That can all f**k off as far as I'm concerned. To that point, I'm perfectly fine with the Mustang dying the way it should, with a thumping V8. Leave the forward thinking to the Germans.

Mustang's competition is dead. An EV Camaro is not a Camaro as much as GM would like you to think. It's garbage, so is the next Dodge monstrosity. Leave EV and hybrid to the daily commuter econo-boxes.

Finally, the Mustang doesn't have to change to remain iconic. It can die an icon.

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[because_murica]

I find this extremely unlikely. Without a hybrid V8 Ford would give up the entire European market because they simply cannot afford the emissions penalties.

It seems like we're all excluding the possibility that Ford may just revert to selling the 2.3L EB in Europe. As much as that would suck, it's the only possibility if the above article is accurate.

 

[IceGamer]

It seems like we're all excluding the possibility that Ford may just revert to selling the 2.3L EB in Europe. As much as that would suck, it's the only possibility if the above article is accurate.

They stopped selling the ecoboost because noone was buying them. In Europe the V8 is the sole reason to buy a Mustang. If they only want to sell the ecoboost or a V6 they might as well keep it as I would assume that hardly anyone buys that car.

 

[Ericc B]

They stopped selling the ecoboost because noone was buying them. In Europe the V8 is the sole reason to buy a Mustang. If they only want to sell the ecoboost or a V6 they might as well keep it as I would assume that hardly anyone buys that car.

Correct. The GT versus EB ratio is much higher in export markets than it is in the US. Some exceptions with extremely high road taxes excluded like Belgium for example, where the annual road tax on a GT is $3000.

 

[tosha]

Thanks! that’s my point. Grocery getter AWD electric vehicles (even those with horse stickers!) having better traction than the actual legendary Mustang Is just sad. Thankfully ford didn’t completely lose the plot and make the Mach e accelerate faster. Give the Mustang AWD so it can make the most of its power, v8 or EV OR HYBRID. The mustang has had superior engines for a long time, but has often missed the traction needed to maximize. It’s time for that to change.

Like I said before the segue, most Mustang owners would rather WIN races than do donuts. Give the legend its AWD already. For crying out loud.

I don't think you got my point - if you want to buy a fast AWD Ford with mustang badge on it, just go and buy it. They sell them already. Adding AWD to V8 won't help you win the straight line races agains EV's.

Sad? I'm not sad at all about my car. I bought it precisely because it's V8 - manual gearbox - RWD no-gimmicks musle car combo, that won't exist for much longer and it's one of the last chances to get one. If I wanted a good AWD, I would buy a quattro, or an STI. Dodge did a 4wd challenger and nobody wanted it, because it was just stupid.

 

[9secondko]

I don't think you got my point - if you want to buy a fast AWD Ford with mustang badge on it, just go and buy it. They sell them already. Adding AWD to V8 won't help you win the straight line races agains EV's.

Sad? I'm not sad at all about my car. I bought it precisely because it's V8 - manual gearbox - RWD no-gimmicks musle car combo, that won't exist for much longer and it's one of the last chances to get one. If I wanted a good AWD, I would buy a quattro, or an STI. Dodge did a 4wd challenger and nobody wanted it, because it was just stupid.

your “point” was a straw man.
No one wants to buy a grocery getter with a horse sticker.

people want the Mustang. The pony car. Not an SUV masquerading as one.

in the future, we want a modern pony car legend that performs worthy of the heritage. Not a grocery getter. If it doesn’t, it has no reason to exist. The same people who buy an AWD EV SUV with a horse sticker are cross shopping the model y Tesla and others of the same ilk.

as the game changes, Ford needs to ensure the Mustang leads and shapes it and doesn’t get assimilated into a bunch of vanilla, losing its purpose and identity in doing so. The Mustang is a sporty car, not a truck. Not a utility vehicle. It’s job is to look hotter That everyone else, go faster, handle better, and leave you wanting more. It sacrifices sedan seating, a truck hee, a sport utility setup, and even door count in order to get the best performance and best looks. It’s an accessible pony CAR thrill ride. THATis the Mustang. Going EV/hybrid doesn’t change that. Going AWD enhances that. Going suv or truck or station wagon is going elsewhere. The market is changing. That doesn’t mean the mustang has to lose its soul and identity in order to be here. It means the Mustang needs to grow, increase in capability, and make bold choices to stand out and claim its right to thrive as the hot, fast, desirable automotive rebel it is.

law the 60s were a sort of genesis of hot looking performance cars, so we are entering a new chapter in history. We can look to the past and see the mistakes. Putting a mustang badge on a pinto was t so great. Today we have the Mach e. As much as you and a few others would like to think otherwise, it’s a fine EV SUV, but it’s no mustang as evidenced by the entire worlds Reaction. Those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it. Ford has an opportunity here. They d played it safe and cheap with s650. It will satisfy us for a while until the big changes can no hee be denied. AWD can still be apart of the s650 especially in the cobra. She the mustang goes EV/hybrid, it will have to have AWD. The mustang power levels at that time, coupled with the instant torque will make it necessary. No reason to not get a jumpstart with s650 even after launch. A new 1960s is coming only electrification is where the focus is. To pave the way for a successful future, Ford needs to remember the lesson of the past, from what made the original mustang so successful to what made the mustang 2 such an embarrassment.

The answer isn’t to keep the mustang old. It’s to reinvent great performance while ensuring style and spirit carry o into modernity - taking the concept to its logical conclusion of accessible domestic exoticism whe avoiding the pitfalls of crushing it, melting it down and blending it into molds it was never meant to fit.

 

[because_murica]

in the future, we want a modern pony car legend that performs worthy of the heritage.

Sound, emotion, and theater from a RWD V8 is part of that heritage.

 

[9secondko]

Sound, emotion, and theater from a RWD V8 is part of that heritage.

See my hybrid posts and reaction to dodges ev pony cars.

 

[tosha]

your “point” was a straw man.
No one wants to buy a grocery getter with a horse sticker.

people want the Mustang. The pony car. Not an SUV masquerading as one.

in the future, we want a modern pony car legend that performs worthy of the heritage. Not a grocery getter. If it doesn’t, it has no reason to exist. The same people who buy an AWD EV SUV with a horse sticker are cross shopping the model y Tesla and others of the same ilk.

as the game changes, Ford needs to ensure the Mustang leads and shapes it and doesn’t get assimilated into a bunch of vanilla, losing its purpose and identity in doing so. The Mustang is a sporty car, not a truck. Not a utility vehicle. It’s job is to look hotter That everyone else, go faster, handle better, and leave you wanting more. It sacrifices sedan seating, a truck hee, a sport utility setup, and even door count in order to get the best performance and best looks. It’s an accessible pony CAR thrill ride. THATis the Mustang. Going EV/hybrid doesn’t change that. Going AWD enhances that. Going suv or truck or station wagon is going elsewhere. The market is changing. That doesn’t mean the mustang has to lose its soul and identity in order to be here. It means the Mustang needs to grow, increase in capability, and make bold choices to stand out and claim its right to thrive as the hot, fast, desirable automotive rebel it is.

law the 60s were a sort of genesis of hot looking performance cars, so we are entering a new chapter in history. We can look to the past and see the mistakes. Putting a mustang badge on a pinto was t so great. Today we have the Mach e. As much as you and a few others would like to think otherwise, it’s a fine EV SUV, but it’s no mustang as evidenced by the entire worlds Reaction. Those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it. Ford has an opportunity here. They d played it safe and cheap with s650. It will satisfy us for a while until the big changes can no hee be denied. AWD can still be apart of the s650 especially in the cobra. She the mustang goes EV/hybrid, it will have to have AWD. The mustang power levels at that time, coupled with the instant torque will make it necessary. No reason to not get a jumpstart with s650 even after launch. A new 1960s is coming only electrification is where the focus is. To pave the way for a successful future, Ford needs to remember the lesson of the past, from what made the original mustang so successful to what made the mustang 2 such an embarrassment.

The answer isn’t to keep the mustang old. It’s to reinvent great performance while ensuring style and spirit carry o into modernity - taking the concept to its logical conclusion of accessible domestic exoticism whe avoiding the pitfalls of crushing it, melting it down and blending it into molds it was never meant to fit.

That's a lot of words.... all I can say is that I have no interest in AWD mustang that would cost even more, weight even more, handle worse just to gain some straight line advantage in traffic light racing. Your view is different, which I accept as well.

As for me, I have no loyalty to Ford brand itself, I like only a few cars that they produce. There's enough AWD sports cars on the market today, that are simply better than a hybrid awd s650 would ever be. Mustang, however, is great at things that cannot be measured by 0-60 times. It's essential that future gens inherit that, otherwise it would be just another blant car with terrible build quality.

Look at BMW - M3/4/5 are performance weapons with AWD, tons of tricks, gimmicks and computing power to make them go as fast as possible. Yet, there is a pretty widespread opinion that much slower M2 is the last real Driver's car in M division.

P.S. oh, and by the way, I think that Mach E is a great car, I like it and I would probably get one if I was shopping for a midsize EV SUV.

 

[sigintel]

"people want the Mustang. The pony car. Not an SUV masquerading as one. "

Mustang trunk huge.
Requesting new trunk lid to accommodate 4x8 sheet of plywood hanging out the back.
Already fits my kayak.

Full tools plus flat towed my vintage 79 mustang racecar.

Uhm yea.... S550 is an SUV. It weighs the same as one.

A 1400hp awd stang would be fun, but heavy and just not competitive with Chevy, BMW and Porsche on track. And thats the problem, there are fewer places to enjoy these levels of power and the corporate bean counters see the straight line street racing crowd as a narrow market that inherently has less career money to spend on cars.
Expensive trucks? great, people use them for work.

Grab an explorer and order the 10R80 AWD (from police/Lincoln models) and swap in the Coyote. Tune for high rpm to keep torque low and make the 10R80 survive. Get that running and then try again with an S650 chassis. You "should" notice some changes to help support the effort in the S650.
If not, I was lied to... To Be Continued....

PS Ford engineers. Grab a previous gen X5M as a test mule. Swap in a coyote AWD 10R80 setup. Let it eat.

 

[9secondko]

"people want the Mustang. The pony car. Not an SUV masquerading as one. "

Mustang trunk huge.
Requesting new trunk lid to accommodate 4x8 sheet of plywood hanging out the back.
Already fits my kayak.

Full tools plus flat towed my vintage 79 mustang racecar.

Uhm yea.... S550 is an SUV. It weighs the same as one.

Got it. You want a Ford branded Jeep 392 with a horse sticker. Makes sense since you are a ford guy and not necessarily a Mustang guy. So there is no investment there.

For Mustang people like myself, we want an actual MUSTANG. And we want it to be the best version of the Mustang possible. A small, sporty car with a powerful drivetrain that blows the doors off everything save McLaren on the strip and on the track. Whether that involves, AWD/EV/hybrid, etc. whatever it takes to get there - especially when even the pedestrian cars are there or getting there. Don't leave the star behind n performance where it matters for the sake of doing donuts - but really there is no need for either or - if it goes EV fully, that version of AWD will be a simple matter of switch to RWD for the occasional donut.

 

[9secondko]

That's a lot of words.... all I can say is that I have no interest in AWD mustang that would cost even more, weight even more, handle worse just to gain some straight line advantage in traffic light racing. Your view is different, which I accept as well.

As for me, I have no loyalty to Ford brand itself, I like only a few cars that they produce. There's enough AWD sports cars on the market today, that are simply better than a hybrid awd s650 would ever be. Mustang, however, is great at things that cannot be measured by 0-60 times. It's essential that future gens inherit that, otherwise it would be just another blant car with terrible build quality.

Look at BMW - M3/4/5 are performance weapons with AWD, tons of tricks, gimmicks and computing power to make them go as fast as possible. Yet, there is a pretty widespread opinion that much slower M2 is the last real Driver's car in M division.

P.S. oh, and by the way, I think that Mach E is a great car, I like it and I would probably get one if I was shopping for a midsize EV SUV.

Words are necessary things when there is much to communicate in the face of paradigm shifts. I figured they would be fitting in a forum dedicated to ... well, words.

AWD setups, especially EV variations are a different ball game than in years past. And it's not just straight line performance that gets enhanced. Traction is traction. You are getting the most from the Mustang's prodigious horsepower and torque. The traffic light/drag strip is one arena where improvements are gained, but it doesn't end there.

"driver's car" depends a lot on the driver. The term gets thrown around a lot to describe a car that performs pretty well, handles pretty well, has a manual transmission, and exhibits enough notice, vibration, and harshness to make you feel less dampened from the road underneath you. Some prefer that, some don't. The Mustang, no matter what it is as it moves forward, will no doubt keep these elements.

I like the Mach E too on its own merits. I think it's worthy of comparison to other SUVs in its class and may come out ahead when the time comes for me to purchase my next SUV. It's a fine EV SUV. It's just not the Mustang.

 

[sigintel]

Got it. You want a Ford branded Jeep 392 with a horse sticker. Makes sense since you are a ford guy and not necessarily a Mustang guy. So there is no investment there.

For Mustang people like myself, we want an actual MUSTANG. And we want it to be the best version of the Mustang possible. A small, sporty car with a powerful drivetrain that blows the doors off everything save McLaren on the strip and on the track. Whether that involves, AWD/EV/hybrid, etc. whatever it takes to get there - especially when even the pedestrian cars are there or getting there. Don't leave the star behind n performance where it matters for the sake of doing donuts - but really there is no need for either or - if it goes EV fully, that version of AWD will be a simple matter of switch to RWD for the occasional donut.

Sounds kinda person attackish...

I vintage race a 1979 mustang w a 200hp pinto motor in it.
Door to door against a field of 1st gen Miatas.
I flat tow it with my S550 MustangSUV.
Show up on a race weekend for a ride.

If that dont make me a Mustang guy, what does? Buying a GT500 and not tracking it?

I want a FORD X5M.
I already offered my X5M to Ford for testing.

I want a MachE Halo car that beats Tesla Plaid.

"A small, sporty car with a powerful drivetrain that blows the doors off"
RS3? Focus? CTR?
S550 Mustang small? ehhh dunno..
Or are you talking a Miata w a turbo kit?
That currently beats the 718 GT4 around Harris Hill.
GT500/GT350R/GT all way too heavy to accomplish corner speeds to be competitive here.

 

[9secondko]

Sounds kinda person attackish...

I vintage race a 1979 mustang w a 200hp pinto motor in it.
Door to door against a field of 1st gen Miatas.
I flat tow it with my S550 MustangSUV.
Show up on a race weekend for a ride.

If that dont make me a Mustang guy, what does? Buying a GT500 and not tracking it?

I want a FORD X5M.
I already offered my X5M to Ford for testing.

I want a MachE Halo car that beats Tesla Plaid.

"A small, sporty car with a powerful drivetrain that blows the doors off"
RS3? Focus? CTR?
S550 Mustang small? ehhh dunno..
Or are you talking a Miata w a turbo kit?
That currently beats the 718 GT4 around Harris Hill.
GT500/GT350R/GT all way too heavy to accomplish corner speeds to be competitive here.

coming from someone who follows me around this forum only to combat my views, that is kind of a strange opener. What I wrote was not an attack at all. It was actually what you described. It's just that Jeep makes it. Not Ford. And it doesn't have the horse sticker. You don't need to ruin the mustang to get the product you describe when there is already exactly that sold by a competitor - that also has the benefit of not masquerading as a pony car. You even justified it using the Mustang's weight.

RE: the focus, Miata drivel - at least you are talking about small sporty cars and not SUVs now - an improvement.

 

[shogun32]

If I wanted a good AWD, I would buy a quattro

I did. 4.2l v8 S5 manual. It's a really nice machine. If Ford did a quattro+stick to the Mustang esp the EB I'd buy it. Seems Ford and VW are 'partners' in several ways. Why don't they just license the quattro I wonder. Especially since VW quit making stick-shift versions of it. So it's not like there would be competition between the marques.

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