Why's Ford not allowing people to tune the S650 Mustang?

[kinelisch]

I was wondering why is Ford not allowing people to tune the S650 Mustang? What could be the reasons…
If I was Ford, I would let people tune the S650. They would probably sell way more new Mustangs.

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[So0_NaSTy]

It’s a liability thing. It’s dangerous, and Ford knows it can lead to complications with newer technology. Allowing people to tune, could on one hand brick the car. Entirely. And people will find a way to crawl back and complain to ford. That’s a big risk. On the other hand, if it’s successful, the car can be way too fast, and if someone couldn’t handle that power and hurt other people, somehow people would still go after Ford for allowing that to happen. It’s a double edged sword for them.

 

[ChitownStang]

It’s a liability thing. It’s dangerous, and Ford knows it can lead to complications with newer technology. Allowing people to tune, could on one hand brick the car. Entirely. And people will find a way to crawl back and complain to ford. That’s a big risk. On the other hand, if it’s successful, the car can be way too fast, and if someone couldn’t handle that power and hurt other people, somehow people would still go after Ford for allowing that to happen. It’s a double edged sword for them.

Yet they sell tuned whipple cars from dealer. Cmon man, it’s all about control and $

 

[kinelisch]

It’s a liability thing. It’s dangerous, and Ford knows it can lead to complications with newer technology. Allowing people to tune, could on one hand brick the car. Entirely. And people will find a way to crawl back and complain to ford. That’s a big risk. On the other hand, if it’s successful, the car can be way too fast, and if someone couldn’t handle that power and hurt other people, somehow people would still go after Ford for allowing that to happen. It’s a double edged sword for them.

But what’s the difference between the ECUs being unlocked on the 2018s and not on the 2024? They are both Ford and 99% similar power.

 

[So0_NaSTy]

Yet they sell tuned whipple cars from dealer. Cmon man, it’s all about control and $

You’re half right. Whipple partnering with Ford does give them a cut, but you’re completely excluding the fact that the Whipple has been professionally tested, and ran to death multiple times for consistency and reliability. That tune is also built by Whipple themselves to run 100% optimal with that setup, so Ford can trust its effective, and not some tuner throwing a thousand things at the car hoping one sticks, bricks it, then files a lawsuit.

 

[So0_NaSTy]

But what’s the difference between the ECUs being unlocked on the 2018s and not on the 2024? They are both Ford and 99% similar power.

Power ≠ control. The same power isn’t same tech. The 2024 is built on an entirely different system regarding the ECU. Not to mention, the federal government has tightened up significantly when it comes to emissions, and ford had to prove they can prevent people from destroying the cars emissions tuning, and locking people out is how to do that. People throwing tunes at the car is dangerous, and many companies have bricked cars doing it, and somehow still had the right in their minds to sue the companies / manufacturer for it. Ford doesn’t want that headache.

 

[Dave2013M3]

Even when Ford does finally allow tuning via Ford Performance, they can still do OTA upgrades. Most manufacturers do this. My BMW G87 M2 has already had 2 OTA updates.

 

[MAT1955]

Read the fine print regarding modifying your engine instead of listening to gossip. Ford does NOT have to honor ANY modifications done by their dealers (who are totally independent of corporate Ford) whether using a Ford part or not. The dealers (stealerships as some on here have said) will tell you exactly what you want to hear.

 

[Mr Hyde]

Because ford decided to cut out the aftermarket, OTA updates are unnecessary and a liability. Just look at how you have to take the bumper off To change the tail lights they have a little tab that does nothing for the stability of the tail light and is not needed. The three bolts that were on the s550 are still the same on the s650. Ford can not be sued for what your dumb ass does with the car. Go ahead and try it you will loose 100% of the time.

 

[Gregs24]

It isn't a 'power' or 'control' or 'money' thing!

It is a cybersecurity thing.

In some markets such as Europe the car is obliged to meet cybersecurity requirements to prevent the car being 'hacked' in a broad term. This is an area that automotive manufacturers have been slow to catch up and real risks are there from a safety and security point of view.

Some cars are not sold now in the EU because they do not comply.

Cybersecurity and car thefts: how are car makers responding?

Cybersecurity regulations: Are non-compliant cars more vulnerable? | Autocar

(22) JTAG Protection in Automotive Cybersecurity: Safeguarding Microcontrollers Against Unauthorized Access | LinkedIn

Don't expect Ford to ever 'unlock' the Mustang and do expect other carmakers to follow. These tend to be platform architecture related changes and many older platforms are not 'upgradeable'.

 

[Q6543]

If you want a tuneable car get an old foxbody and megasquirt or Holley.

this trend isn’t changing, all that being said the factory tune is pretty damn good, and whipples tune is as good or better than any aftermarket tune I’ve ever had.

 

[schmeky7]

So0-NaSYy is correct.

Cobb got fined over 1 million dollars for violating emissions standards. EPA is cracking down.

Like others said, the 4th Gen is pretty much maxed out and makes amazing power for a really small 307 cubic inches.

This is the only mass produced V-8 I know of that has 100% volumetric efficiency, an outstanding accomplishment by Ford.

 

[135Hoser]

So0-NaSYy is correct.

No, They aren't. Ford doesn't give two shits what you do to your car, and anything you do will get them out of having to warranty it. Tesla sells cars from the factory that are a bunch faster than the mustang and cheaper, think Tesla or elmo give a shit when little timmy wraps his model Y around a pole? or kills a family in a subcompact upon impact? Same with GM and their electric hummer, same even for Ford with their Super Duties. In a game of physics in a head on collision, the lighter car takes the most damage, crumple zones be damned.

A tuner can brick an ECU and file a lawsuit against ford, then when fords lawyers are done laughing at them, and the tuner and his lawyer get laughed out of court, Ford will counter sue for attorneys fees.

Cobb got fined over 1 million dollars for violating emissions standards. EPA is cracking down.

The EPA *WAS* cracking down under the previous administration. COBB is different than an automaker. Cobb was violating emissions standards. A few large diesel particulate filter delete suppliers/tuners got fined way more than Cobb did. The current administration is working hard to gut and defund the EPA. I'm sure if Drumpf had ever driven a car or gave a shit about what some of what his voters wanted, this aspect of the EPA would have been gone on day one. Instead he's busy removing women and black people who have served in the military from DoD websites honouring their service and accomplishments.

Another part of the reason there's been a backlog in the ECU being cracked in the aftermarket is because a lot of this ECU tuning is done by hackers in Russia, which is getting its shit punched in currently, and a bunch of young men are getting drafted.

Also it's getting a lot easier to leverage advanced encryption methods in reasonably priced ECUs. So short of someone having a quantum computer capable of breaking advanced cryptography, or a leak of encryption keys from inside Ford (or Bosch/Siemens/whomever is writing software) and you know they're keeping all of that very close to the chest.

Ford is releasing performance tunes next year, which has been covered *EXTENSIVELY* on this forum as recently as this week. They will be CARB compliant.

@Gregs24 Also makes good points. Remember how you can control the steering wheel and gas just by hacking into the wifi hotspot on select jeep products? However I'm not sure there's any case law in the states regarding that.

Honda/Kia/Hyundai has demonstrated that making your product more difficult to steal doesn't really matter and people will still buy your shit regardless. Hell it's spawned a whole industry for hellcat owners with fake obd2 ports because of how easy those are to program a key for, in the field.

 

[kinelisch]

I wonder why Ford allowed the S550 (2015-2023) to be tuned when the S550 & S650 are 95% the same car...

 

[Gregs24]

I wonder why Ford allowed the S550 (2015-2023) to be tuned when the S550 & S650 are 95% the same car...

Answer above. It's the 5% that matters!

Laws (and threats) change too.

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