Tesla Catches Fire During Helene-Burns House Down

[steveo1960]

It's happened in NYC a number of times. In some cases people have died.

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[Mr Hyde]

Wow that is going to need translation !

lol Sorry basically lithium and salt water don't mix. The storm surge caused flooding, and hit 8 ish feet here in Florida in some areas and happened in the span of an hour or two. Not all but more than a few EV, E bikes and even those little scooters caught fire due to salt water immersion. Even had some cordless tool batteries go up.

 

[keithwalton]

Battery pack is IP68 or similar but not a submarine. It can cope with driving through flood water but not prolonged drowning!

Unless the car is floating the water is barely up to the sill
An ip *7 rating should be able to handle 1 m under water at its lowest point for at least 30mins, *8 is over 1m (usually 3) and can be up to 3 hours or infinite.

Most automotive things particularly external / under body are *9(k) rated which is a up to 100 bar pressure jet at short range. Think underbody clean in a car wash!

From the looks of things they were designed / certified correctly but either had a manufacturing defect (on a Tesla? Never!) or overtime failed. Damage to battery casing is becoming increasingly common and dangerous when not correctly protected.

Also most battery packs and liquid cooled /heated these days so the thing is full of water from the factory.

Any of our engine bay components that are external to the engine must be able to withstand.

Someone pouring onto them -
Windshield washer fluid
Anti-freeze
Brake fluid
Any other engine bay fluid (engine oil, gear oil, steering oil etc, battery acid is a rare one)

And then if they decided they want to clean it almost just be able to withstand -
Low pressure salt water spray (for 100's of hours)
High pressure jet wash

All with zero loss of function and only some times is cosmetic corrosion acceptable.

 

[Gregs24]

Unless the car is floating the water is barely up to the sill
An ip *7 rating should be able to handle 1 m under water at its lowest point for at least 30mins, *8 is over 1m (usually 3) and can be up to 3 hours or infinite.

Most automotive things particularly external / under body are *9(k) rated which is a up to 100 bar pressure jet at short range. Think underbody clean in a car wash!

From the looks of things they were designed / certified correctly but either had a manufacturing defect (on a Tesla? Never!) or overtime failed. Damage to battery casing is becoming increasingly common and dangerous when not correctly protected.

Also most battery packs and liquid cooled /heated these days so the thing is full of water from the factory.

Any of our engine bay components that are external to the engine must be able to withstand.

Someone pouring onto them -
Windshield washer fluid
Anti-freeze
Brake fluid
Any other engine bay fluid (engine oil, gear oil, steering oil etc, battery acid is a rare one)

And then if they decided they want to clean it almost just be able to withstand -
Low pressure salt water spray (for 100's of hours)
High pressure jet wash

All with zero loss of function and only some times is cosmetic corrosion acceptable.

Agree - that car looks like the flood water has barely reached the floor of the car, just look at the tyres, the water is only just above the tyre wall. Maybe the battery casing was damaged as you suggest.

Either way, electric cars bursting into flames in flood water is not actually true to any real degree. The report I linked showed how few flooded EV's actually caught fire in two major flooding events. Of course the Lithium in the battery is not just chunks of Lithium metal which burns in water, it is found as various compounds which are stable. The risk comes from the flammable electrolytes and electrical short circuits creating the ignition.

 

[Gregs24]

cut them some slack, it's not like lithum + water = high heat reaction with flammable hydrogen byproduct, right? ....right?

Erm, the Lithium in an EV battery is not in a pure state, it is in the form of a stable compound.

So no, your statement is incorrect.

 

[Gregs24]

lol Sorry basically lithium and salt water don't mix. The storm surge caused flooding, and hit 8 ish feet here in Florida in some areas and happened in the span of an hour or two. Not all but more than a few EV, E bikes and even those little scooters caught fire due to salt water immersion. Even had some cordless tool batteries go up.

Unprotected batteries (or damaged) will be at a higher risk of catching fire for sure. Power tools will not be rated high enough to survive immersion.

There is no Lithium in the native state in a battery, it is in a compound form such as LiCoO2 and is a Lithium Ion battery. The reason the batteries burn is NOT the same as putting Lithium in water. If it was the cause there would be fires EVERYWHERE on a rainy day!

 

[roket]

Erm, the Lithium in an EV battery is not in a pure state, it is in the form of a stable compound.

So no, your statement is incorrect.

i actually did not know that. today i learned! im like 90% sure it still reacts, though

 

[Gregs24]

i actually did not know that. today i learned! im like 90% sure it still reacts, though

No, the compound is stable. What happens is that water gets in and causes damage to the circuitry, which then causes a spark and the electrolyte is flammable. Salt water makes the process quicker, but also allows a circuit to form which can then cause thermal runaway. This is probably less likely when charging or in use where the battery is actively cooled by a water jacket, but only if the car isn't drowned full stop. On PHEV cars there are two cooling circuits, one for the engine and one for the battery, both with coolant expansion tanks and pumps etc.

BEV's are actually very well designed and constructed and not the time bombs some would have you believe. EV's are actually less likely to catch fire than ICE cars by quite some margin.

 

[roket]

No, the compound is stable. What happens is that water gets in and causes damage to the circuitry, which then causes a spark and the electrolyte is flammable. Salt water makes the process quicker, but also allows a circuit to form which can then cause thermal runaway. This is probably less likely when charging or in use where the battery is actively cooled by a water jacket, but only if the car isn't drowned full stop. On PHEV cars there are two cooling circuits, one for the engine and one for the battery, both with coolant expansion tanks and pumps etc.

BEV's are actually very well designed and constructed and not the time bombs some would have you believe. EV's are actually less likely to catch fire than ICE cars by quite some margin.

thank you for telling me all this. EVs are definitely my weak point of automotive knowledge and im always glad to learn more

 

[steveo1960]

thank you for telling me all this. EVs are definitely my weak point of automotive knowledge and im always glad to learn more

This discussion is bring back some bad nightmares of my college days sitting in organic chemistry class. And yes I do realize that lithium is inorganic.

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