The V8 - S650 and beyond

[dethmaShine]

I doubt this is new news to anyone here but according to Ford Authority, the S650 will launch with the current EcoBoost 2.3L and the Coyote 5.0L.

Oh well then what’s the difference? Just new packaging?

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[Twin Turbo]

I doubt this is new news to anyone here but according to Ford Authority, the S650 will launch with the current EcoBoost 2.3L and the Coyote 5.0L.

Pretty much as expected.

However, I'd also expect a Gen 4 Coyote. Some north of 475hp for a base GT would be nice to see.

 

[5.0S550]

Oh well then what’s the difference? Just new packaging?

The article seemed to just exist to put out an article. Saying it's coming with the 2.3l and 5.0L but no other info is what everyone already expected.

 

[IceGamer]

Pretty much as expected.

However, I'd also expect a Gen 4 Coyote. Some north of 475hp for a base GT would be nice to see.

Well, according to FA the Coyote will be a "carryover" engine, meaning 450hp or 470 if it's based on the Mach 1. Honestly, I think that's very likely going to happen. The Coyote does not have that much left in it and around 500hp are somewhat what can be achieved without any superchargers.

Taking into consideration that the S550 is faster on paper than it is in real life (unlike BMWs, which are always way faster than advertised), that's almost disappointing, especially if one takes into consideration that the regular V8 won't be sold outside of the US. If they have to tune down the HP even in America I don't eben see the slightest chance that that thing will be released for the European market. Besides, it would be nice if the S650 would be able to do 0-100 in <4 seconds, even 3.99 would be nice. However, I don't see a slightly refreshed car do that with somewhat +20Hp...

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

Is there any possibility the next GT/[specialty model] makes even less horsepower and torque figures (down to let's say 440/460HP for this example) on paper to meet tightening regulations, but then actually performs on par if not faster in real life?

 

[shogun32]

The article seemed to just exist to put out an article.

that's 98% of what that site posts. I laugh at the "looking for editor/contributors" you see from time to time. For what? Write a script that scrapes random paragraphs from previous content and post it every 2 or 3 days just so the RSS feed says there is something new.

 

[Dub347sbf]

Is there any possibility the next GT/[specialty model] makes even less horsepower and torque figures (down to let's say 440/460HP for this example) on paper to meet tightening regulations, but then actually performs on par if not faster in real life?

It's a possibility for sure, the HP hit in 2022 may be writing on the wall. If it happens, it better perform better, because casuals will see the number and talk negatively immediately.

Easy way around all of that is use hybrid technology. Or reduce weight.

 

[9secondko]

The stupid part is the argument that “we can make a v6 with twin turbos that’s more powerful than a v8.”

the reality is that:

1) the Chevy z06 proves that wrong.

2) if you do that to the v6, you should do it to the v8. Turbos are better for power and fuel economy than supercharging. Make a muscleboost v8 that gets better economy and great power.

The v6 argument has no place. That only reason they throw that out there is to prep the audience for dropping the 8 in a few years.

As others have said, they can also make an electric hybrid.

even if they go back to making a smaller 260 or 289 CI engine as homage to the original car (and keep the v8 characteristics, sound, etc) they can make up the difference with the electric motors.

there are so many things to do besides “oh v6 turbo.” So stupid. Of course a TURBO 6 wil be more powerful than some NATURALLY ASPIRATED V8s. It a turbo 8 will demolish the 6 and get good economy as well.

the car guys at ford need to start figuring out how to beat the flower children in the boardroom.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

that's 98% of what that site posts. I laugh at the "looking for editor/contributors" you see from time to time. For what? Write a script that scrapes random paragraphs from previous content and post it every 2 or 3 days just so the RSS feed says there is something new.

So there's still hope for a hybrid and/or AWD version of the Mustang that isn't a Mach E...probably not at launch, but perhaps 2-3 years afterwards at the earliest or near the end of the S650 generation at the absolute latest.

Back to the original topic, if I ever pull the trigger on a Mustang with a V8, I just want to make sure that it has plenty of power on the low-end of the RPM spectrum if I need to do a left turn from a stop sign in to a main road where the traffic flow doesn't have stop signs (if that makes sense). That, and not struggling on the highway while driving on any upward incline.

 

[okfoz]

I would like to see a Mustang ST, it would use the same engine as the Explorer ST, the 3.0L TT.

 

[shogun32]

I just want to make sure that it has plenty of power on the low-end of the RPM spectrum if I need to do a left turn from a stop sign in to a main road where the traffic flow doesn't have stop signs (if that makes sense). That, and not struggling on the highway while driving on any upward incline.

with the 3.73 rear gears that can be done in 1st or 2nd. With 3.55 you need the A10's lower gearing or just get used to using 1st gear a bit more than you might be inclined to.

For the second, DOWN SHIFT and put at least 2500 or far better 3300+RPM on the tach. Drive the coyote like a motorcycle - REV THE SHIT OUT IT - or at least stay north of 2500RPM at a bare MINIMUM. Only time I'm below 2000 RPM is if I'm hypermilling going downhill, or rolling to a stop, or found dead while driving.

If you want to 'surf' 1000-1700RPM buy a freaking diesel.
I get better MPG in 5th at 70mph and up than I do in 6th using cruise control.

 

[Hack]

I'd have thought......or hoped, the hybrid tech would keep the V8 around in markets where it'd be tough without it (mainly Europe).

But if Ford want some feedback, then lets give it to them!

Please Ford, keep the V8 around for the 7th AND 8th Gen Mustangs!!

Great thread. I know I've said this before on here, but I'll say it again. The last Mustang I purchased was used. I didn't buy new because the new cars didn't seem better than a 2017. I don't like the manual transmission gearing changes, I don't like the spray cylinder liners, I'm not a big fan of direct injection.

I started buying newer Mustangs when the Coyote came out, because it was the first engine that I thought was significantly better than the pushrod 302.

Yes Ford, please keep the V8 as an option, but I'm also going to ask - please do something to improve your V8 - or make the car much better in some other performance-related way. Add some lightness.

I'd love to see a new Mustang come out that I really have to buy. The last one was the GT350. Hopefully there will be another.

I doubt this is new news to anyone here but according to Ford Authority, the S650 will launch with the current EcoBoost 2.3L and the Coyote 5.0L.

This really bums me out. Why would I buy an S650 if it still has the same engines? I guess I'll just cross my fingers that Ford will do something to make it better than the S550.

the car guys at ford need to start figuring out how to beat the flower children in the boardroom.

Yes I agree.

 

[Ericc B]

I'm most of all puzzled about the future of the Mustang V8 towards the export markets. Adding some sort of hybrid component would have made it a lot more emission friendly (well on paper at least), but with the latest signs pointing toward a simple carry-over of the current engines I'm starting to wonder if we will even get the V8 version in Europe at all.

On the other hand I wonder how Ford sees the future of the Coyote themselves. They have already cut power for MY 2022 because of emissions, even in the US, so it's more likely that power will be more down instead of up in upcoming model years.

With all the attention on electric atm it's easy to think that Ford will simply milk out the current Coyote and let it die slowly over the next decade. But putting all your eggs in the battery basket is a risky policy, especially if your halo models like F150 and Mustang so heavily depend on the connection to the V8 and the hippy Democrats won't stay in power forever either. So maybe somewhere deep inside the dungeons at Detroit they are doing some secret magic and in 2026 all of a sudden they wave their wand and present a brand new 4 liter Twin Turbo after all. AMG runs almost 600 HP out of their 4 liter V8TT in base spec and with 20 grams less emissions than the current 5 liter Coyote. And it sounds like frikkin thunder and lightning too. Fat chance of course but in these insane times one can dream I suppose.

 

[21 antimatter]

With gasoline possibly going to $6/gallon and staying there (+/- $1/gallon) the economics of owning a 5.0 change drastically. The fossil fuel industry has to get the money out of their assets before the world gets off of oil so it is possible that higher gasoline prices are here to stay. The lifetime (150,000 miles) fuel cost on a V8 goes from ~$24,000 ($3/gal) to $48,000. Assuming overall mileage of ~19mpg. I'm lucky to get that because I can't keep my foot out of it! The switch to electric/hybrid is going to happen much faster than you expect it to. Lithium supply, cobalt (for now), scaling up battery production, recapitalizing, misinformation and some other factors are at play. The V8 may end up being a much smaller portion of the total Mustangs produced, unless Ford figures out a way to hybridize it somehow to make the economics more attractive. A PHEV version with the ability to run on Otto or Atkinson with a small removable battery would do the trick. The cost premium would be offset by the savings in fuel. When you want the 5.0 old school feel and sound just put it in "Track or Sport" mode to switch to Otto with or without electric assist. A 500HP and AWD hybrid could be a good combination. It's possible to make the battery removable for track days too(assuming a pack weight of around 250-300lbs and having it modular so individual packs are manageable for removal ). Even if this adds a $10,000 premium to the price of a V8 it would be worth it for the fuel savings over the life of the car if it's a DD. The Mustang is meant to have a V8 and not be just a garage queen!

 

[shogun32]

AMG runs almost 600 HP out of their 4 liter V8TT in base spec and with 20 grams less emissions than the current 5 liter Coyote. And it sounds like frikkin thunder and lightning too.

in this day and age, auto manufacturers (and Ford in particular) should just license each other their engines and be done with it.

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