Thoughts on the Dark Horse Name

[Dave2013M3]

Personally, I love the Mustang's heritage.........Mach 1s, Boss 302s (and 429 & 351).....California Specials....I love how Ford have, up to now, brought these models back throughout the last 49 years.

So, I'd rather the Dark Horse was a Boss 307, or another Mach 1. I'd have left Dark Horse in the stable until the 8th Gen/Full EV.

But, if the car's good, it won't matter what its called

This...

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[Hack]

I think the Dark Horse is a poor choice for a name. The Dark Horse should have been called Mustang GT. But Ford had to slap a "special" name on it and overcharge for it.

They should save Dark Horse or some other oddball names for cars that have more of a performance differentiation from the basic cars. Adding 20 hp and slapping badges on a car doesn't tempt me to pay big $$.

I think this is a really bad take. Selling a car needs a catchy name. It doesn't take much car sales knowledge to see that one of Dodges key reason that their market share grew in the last few years with absolutely not technical advances is their marketing including the model names. Hellcat, Demon, Redeye, it's easy to remember and easily tells it has power.

In comparison try to get someone exited about Chevy models with ZL1, ZL1 1LE, Z/28, Z51, Z06, Z06 with Z07, etc. Or just the fact that they have a 1LT and a LT1 Camaro model at the same time, wtf.

A name matters. The Challenger Hellcat is easily a worse car than a GT500 or ZL1, it's slower, handles horribly worse, but yet it's selling extremly well.

Ford has a known name with Shelby for higher models, but it's safe to say that their "Performance Package 2" was a horrible attempt to sell a track focused GT package, and the Mach 1 didn't really hit the spot in terms of hype and was badly timed when you sell a BEV SUV named Mustang Mach-E.

So the Dark Horse name with the Hellcat-inspired emblem is a great move. From what I saw in the last years only a handful of Mustang-diehard-fans were really excited for a Bullitt or Mach 1 and willed to pay so much more for these cars, but now tons of people are saying they really want the DH and not just the GT for Gen 7.

Dodge sells a lot of Challengers and Chargers because the base cars and high option cars both look good. They don't uglify the base cars and only the limited production cars look good.

And the other reason Dodges sell well is they have big engines that make big power.

If the Dark Horse made 600-650 NA HP, I'd be at my dealer getting in line right now. At 500 it's not much different than a few year old Bullit and it's not as good as a 7 year old GT350.

 

[Dub347sbf]

Adding 20 hp and slapping badges on a car doesn't tempt me to pay big $$.

At 500 it's not much different than a few year old Bullit and it's not as good as a 7 year old GT350.

It is a direct replacement for the Mach 1, which was way more than just 20 HP and way more than a Bullitt in 2021.

Additionally, the Mach 1 Handling Pack has already bested a GT350R around some tracks in some tests, and I believe the DH will best the Mach 1 HP, so yeah, it's going to give a 7 year old GT350 more than a run for it's money around a track.

20 horsepower, maybe more, but it's the other changes that make the car special for a track. If you are a drag racer only, I'm sure it's not the package for you.

Dodge sells a lot of Challengers and Chargers because the base cars and high option cars both look good. They don't uglify the base cars and only the limited production cars look good.

And the other reason Dodges sell well is they have big engines that make big power.

Also, it will spank the Hell Kitten around a lot of road courses, which is what the DH is made for.

 

[OppoLock]

I think the Dark Horse is a poor choice for a name. The Dark Horse should have been called Mustang GT. But Ford had to slap a "special" name on it and overcharge for it.

They should save Dark Horse or some other oddball names for cars that have more of a performance differentiation from the basic cars. Adding 20 hp and slapping badges on a car doesn't tempt me to pay big $$.



Dodge sells a lot of Challengers and Chargers because the base cars and high option cars both look good. They don't uglify the base cars and only the limited production cars look good.

And the other reason Dodges sell well is they have big engines that make big power.

If the Dark Horse made 600-650 NA HP, I'd be at my dealer getting in line right now. At 500 it's not much different than a few year old Bullit and it's not as good as a 7 year old GT350.

It’s missing an X-factor. Same thing that bummed me out about the Mach 1; its motor is a tarted up Coyote. I get that the Voodoo was particularly special but maybe I’m spoiled in terms of expectations.

Also figured the dual intake plenum would benefit the ability to have another go at a FPC motor since that’s how most FPC motors are set up by nature (the Voodoo’s single intake made it an oddball in the FPC V8 world).

The only thing tempting about it is the Tremec. Obviously it’ll be fast but I’m more concerned about how different the driving experience will be.

 

[Ace]

Dodge sells a lot of Challengers and Chargers because the base cars and high option cars both look good. They don't uglify the base cars and only the limited production cars look good.

The visuals of these cars are unchanged for many many years now. It wouldn't explain why sales increased a lot while the competitors fell down.

 

[Skye]

“A dark horse is a previously lesser-known person or thing that emerges to prominence in a situation, especially in a competition involving multiple rivals, …”

“a candidate or competitor about whom little is known but who unexpectedly wins or succeeds.”

When I think back to all the Mustang model variations I can remember, they inspire thoughts of speed, power and racing. Dark Horse? No. Often negative.

Nite Pony? Absolutely not.

Millions of Mustang owners and enthusiasts the world over. Would have been nice to have had a competition on selecting a name, with the winner gaining a new S650 or an all expense paid trip, sit-down with the design team, tour of the plant, help assemble a S650. Something like that. Would have been a great chance to promote the new mark.

 

[GT Premi]

I can't help thinking about that Katy Perry song when I hear the Dark Horse name.

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Dodge sells a lot of Challengers and Chargers because the base cars and high option cars both look good. They don't uglify the base cars and only the limited production cars look good.
...

Base Challengers and Chargers are pretty horrid looking to me.

...

Additionally, the Mach 1 Handling Pack has already bested a GT350R around some tracks in some tests...

Links?

 

[Bikeman315]

Dub347sbf said:
Additionally, the Mach 1 Handling Pack has already bested a GT350R around some tracks in some tests...

Links?
[/QUOTE]

Oh god no, not this again. Just use search and look it up. Let's stick to the Dark Horse on this thread.

Oh, And by the way I like the name. Like the car even more.

 

[Dub347sbf]

Links?

Oh god no, not this again. Just use search and look it up. Let's stick to the Dark Horse on this thread.

Oh, And by the way I like the name. Like the car even more.

With respect for this thread, here is where we have discussed this in the past, with the M1 HP a few spots above a 16 GT350R. Mach 1 lightning lap

 

[Hack]

It is a direct replacement for the Mach 1, which was way more than just 20 HP and way more than a Bullitt in 2021.

Additionally, the Mach 1 Handling Pack has already bested a GT350R around some tracks in some tests, and I believe the DH will best the Mach 1 HP, so yeah, it's going to give a 7 year old GT350 more than a run for it's money around a track.

20 horsepower, maybe more, but it's the other changes that make the car special for a track. If you are a drag racer only, I'm sure it's not the package for you.



Also, it will spank the Hell Kitten around a lot of road courses, which is what the DH is made for.

Yes DH is a replacement for the Mach 1, which made 480 hp I believe. And I think that was 20 HP more than the standard GT. I believe they are saying 500 for the DH, which is Mach 1 +20 HP.

Yes I'm sure the DH will give a GT350 a run for its money on a road course. My opinion is that it should since it is being produced 8 years later.

I'm not saying that the DH is bad. But what I'm saying is it doesn't seem special enough to justify this entirely new name and different appearance and new badging. To me it's a good option package to add to a GT. If it were my company I would call the DH a GT with Performance Pack 1. All they are adding is track cooling, some handling bits and a tiny power boost.

It’s missing an X-factor. Same thing that bummed me out about the Mach 1; its motor is a tarted up Coyote. I get that the Voodoo was particularly special but maybe I’m spoiled in terms of expectations.

Also figured the dual intake plenum would benefit the ability to have another go at a FPC motor since that’s how most FPC motors are set up by nature (the Voodoo’s single intake made it an oddball in the FPC V8 world).

The only thing tempting about it is the Tremec. Obviously it’ll be fast but I’m more concerned about how different the driving experience will be.

Yes that's what I'm saying. I really like the car. Good styling and more power. Quicker steering ratio sounds good. Electronic braking I'm afraid of. Smaller wheelbase seems great. There are pluses and minuses. But the changes are smaller in scope. Not enough to justify calling it an entirely different model.

The visuals of these cars are unchanged for many many years now. It wouldn't explain why sales increased a lot while the competitors fell down.

The visuals aren't why the sales increased IMO, but the visuals are good and still good enough so people who want one aren't discouraged by the crappy appearance.

Base Challengers and Chargers are pretty horrid looking to me.

They all look very similar to me. Not like having an excellent looking Mach 1 and a not so much GT.

 

[Dub347sbf]

Yes DH is a replacement for the Mach 1, which made 480 hp I believe. And I think that was 20 HP more than the standard GT. I believe they are saying 500 for the DH, which is Mach 1 +20 HP.

Yes I'm sure the DH will give a GT350 a run for its money on a road course. My opinion is that it should since it is being produced 8 years later.

I'm not saying that the DH is bad. But what I'm saying is it doesn't seem special enough to justify this entirely new name and different appearance and new badging. To me it's a good option package to add to a GT. If it were my company I would call the DH a GT with Performance Pack 1. All they are adding is track cooling, some handling bits and a tiny power boost.

I respect what you are saying. The pp gt can't do lap sessions all day without going into limp mode, and the DH should be able to, while matching or beating GT350R times, which I think is good enough for a performance nameplate. It is also the car I plan on buying. If i were just drag racing, I would be going for a base GT.

 

[Hack]

I respect what you are saying. The pp gt can't do lap sessions all day without going into limp mode, and the DH should be able to, while matching or beating GT350R times, which I think is good enough for a performance nameplate. It is also the car I plan on buying. If i were just drag racing, I would be going for a base GT.

Yes I agree and understand that the PP GT isn't set up to perform well on the road course. IMO it should have been.

I've heard that the next gen Mustang might also have stiffer suspension in it, to which I say, "about time!" I have FP track handling kit on my 2017 GT PP1, and that suspension is STILL softer than the GR86 stock suspension. Crazy how soft these Mustangs are.

 

[GT Premi]

Oh god no, not this again. Just use search and look it up. Let's stick to the Dark Horse on this thread.

...

You make it sound like it was a knock down, drag out battle. That thread was ONE page long, and there wasn't even any arguing. LOL

 

[Bikeman315]

You make it sound like it was a knock down, drag out battle. That thread was ONE page long, and there wasn't even any arguing. LOL

You missed this one.

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/mach-1-is-better-than-gt350.180929/page-19

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