Throttle House: Dark Horse Mustang vs 392 Challenger vs Camaro ( Drag Race , Roll Race & Track Times )

[Mikhail24DH]

They are, but you'll need to figure a new set about every 5-6000 miles of normal driving. They've got an insanely low treadwear rating, so little to no mileage. The one delivered to our dealership yesterday had lots of small rocks stuck to the glue like tread.

Well I have a long, wet & cold drive tomorrow from the dealership after I sign the papers. I’ll see how those tires perform in those conditions

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[OppoLock]

Tires

You have to give Ford credit, they definitely picked the right tires and apparently nailed ABS tuning. Glad to see it get a victory!

 

[Zcarmenb28]

Great review, as always. It is a very impressive time, but those Trofeo RS tires are perhaps the grippiest tires ever fitted to a production vehicle, so I'm not totally surprised (competitor to Cup 2R tires). And they have 6 years of additional tire tech development over the ZL1 1LE Goodyear Supercar 3R tires. The 4,000 lbs DH set a Motortrend record with the 60-0 braking in only 86 ft: "The Dark Horse has that covered. In fact, it out-brakes every production car we've ever tested. Its 86-foot 60-0-mph stop edges out the 2018 Porsche 911 GT2 RS and 2016 Dodge Viper ACR by 1 foot."

DH lateral acceleration measured by Motortrend, though, was only 1.06 g and the Motortrend figure 8 test was 23.7 seconds. Given how grippy the tires are, the lateral acceleration and figure 8 time are not that great. That Throttle House lap time is great, however.

As far as the ZL1 1LE goes, it braked from 60-0 in 91 ft, gripped at 1.11 g, and did the MT figure 8 at 23.0 sec. A regular ZL1 was 96 ft, 1.07 g, and 23.1 sec., for comparison.

That said, the ZL1 1LE in the Throttle House track test ~3-4 years ago was in its stiffest suspension setting, and if I remember correctly, Thomas said that it was struggling to put the power down a bit given the extremely stiff damper setting. The settings have to be changed at the dampers, maybe even when off the car, so they couldn't change it to optimize for their bumpy track. Also as pointed out previously, the TH test track is tight and small, where the extra power doesn't really kick in compared to lower power cars.

Their track has also been spitting out a lot of fast times the last year or so, I wonder if Thomas has improved as a driver as well. I've said for a while now that I think if they brought a regular ZL1 with fresh OEM tires (Goodyear Supercar 3 tires) it would beat their ZL1 1LE time due to the Magnetic dampers and more compliant suspension.

I was only slightly surprised that in the roll race the DH only beat the Camaro LT1 by less than 1/2 a car length. That was a little closer than I expected, and a little disappointing for the +45 hp DH. I even think the LT1 was crawling back up to the DH near the end of the roll race. I'm not surprised at the drag results (1.5 cars), given the skinny 245 all seasons on the LT1 vs. the 315 fat sticky meats on the DH.

That said, the DH styling is growing on me, and it looks really good from most angles. I still don't love the heavy looking front end, but everything else looks pretty cool (interior tacked on screens not withstanding). But for that price, I'd like more than just barely enough hp to beat a 455 hp Camaro LT1 or SS by 1/3 car in a roll race.

 

[erocker]

I just saw Tirerack has the Dark Horse tires in stock... $625 a tire!

 

[Ace]

Their track has also been spitting out a lot of fast times the last year or so, I wonder if Thomas has improved as a driver as well. I've said for a while now that I think if they brought a regular ZL1 with fresh OEM tires (Goodyear Supercar 3 tires) it would beat their ZL1 1LE time due to the Magnetic dampers and more compliant suspension.

Yeah I was wondering that too. But given that the base 24 GT did a 1:14 his improvements won't fix everything. If I remember correctly they also have a very strict regulation how they set the time, something like one warmup lap and then 3 laps for a time. It's way different than for example C&Ds Lightning Lap where they spend hours with each car to get a perfect lap. For the insane C8 Z06 time they even had Oliver Gavin (former corvette pro driver of the C8.R) there training them how to get the most out of the Z06 which honestly is wildy unfair

 

[falcongtho3]

Well I have a long, wet & cold drive tomorrow from the dealership after I sign the papers. I’ll see how those tires perform in those conditions

Get home safe...and let me know in 6 months when those are toast!

 

[Hack]

Wow. Was not expecting that lap time, honestly.

Yes, caveats aplenty (not same day, time, season, etc) with comparing to other cars...but beating the ZL1 1LE? That's pretty insane. Keep in mind the "ZLE" weighs LESS than the DH HP and makes 150 more HP and WELL over 200 more TQ. I guess the Mustang chassis must really be "crap" for the heavier, less powerful car to outperform the pinnacle of Camaro...(excessive sarcasm).

Very impressive times...if anything, it provokes more salivation over the upcoming C&D LL 2024. Can't wait!

I was surprised that it was faster than the ZL1 1LE, plus it seemed like the DH wasn't incredibly stiff and uncomfortable like the ZLE. And I didn't hear a million rocks and pebbles thrown by the tires pinging off the wheel wells of the DH like you do in ZLE videos.

I'm not sure whether the tires are actually stickier than those on the ZLE or if the DH chassis is just that much superior to the crappy Alpha chassis.

I'd love to see how the DH would do with the carbon fiber wheels.

another great video!

Really? I thought it was mostly crap. They didn't talk much at all about how well the DH drives on the street. They didn't talk about how the Trofeo R tires work in daily situations. They didn't talk about other options on the DH or just general information very much at all. They didn't even mention that the DH was faster than the ZLE and why or that it was also faster than the SS 1LE and by how much.

They compared it in a straight line to a non-handling Camaro where they should have compared it to the 1LE. They had the 1LE just recently and compared it to a PP1. The lower option Camaro should have been compared to the PP1 and the DH compared to the 1LE.

I feel like Throttle House used to be awesome but lately I think they are slipping a bit.

 

[FlyNavy86]

It would be interesting if they put the DH wheels and tires onto a GT PP with magneride. I’d be curious to know just how let down the PP is with its current wheel/tire setup.

 

[JamesE]

Really? I thought it was mostly crap. They didn't talk much at all about how well the DH drives on the street. They didn't talk about how the Trofeo R tires work in daily situations. They didn't talk about other options on the DH or just general information very much at all. They didn't even mention that the DH was faster than the ZLE and why or that it was also faster than the SS 1LE and by how much.

They compared it in a straight line to a non-handling Camaro where they should have compared it to the 1LE. They had the 1LE just recently and compared it to a PP1. The lower option Camaro should have been compared to the PP1 and the DH compared to the 1LE.

I feel like Throttle House used to be awesome but lately I think they are slipping a bit.

Hey mate, hope you don't mind me replying but I do so because Thomas and I care about the Mustang forum and i'd love to dispel any displeasure from our videos.

To address your first point about street driving and daily usage, we simply didn't have the car on the street. There was no press car available at the time of filming so instead thanks to the kindness of an owner, we used a flatbed to bring one directly to our track for filming that one day only.

Thanks to Toronto having seasons, to have waited any longer for Ford Canada to get their shit together would have meant potentially never making a piece of content with it to begin with. Apologies, I'd love to have lived with it and given impressions. But something tells me the Trofeo RS tires that were on it might have made daily duty a little less comfortable in downtown Toronto, what with all our streetcar tracks and all.

As for other options on the DH, we rarely if ever run through what a build/spec sheet would look like in our reviews. Let Raiti's Rides or someone else tell you that info, but something tells me you as a forum member are probably already filled in on that stuff so I'm not sure who that info would be for.

As for it being faster than the ZLE, that's totally fair to point out we didn't discuss it. I think mostly it was because of how shockingly quick the DH time was. All of what you see is recorded in real time. it is not rehearsed. It is not scripted. So my shock probably didn't help me gather my thoughts. But seeing as I'm here answering, the answer is most likely that the fixed dampers on the ZLE punished the lap time on our track, whereas the magneride in the Dark Horse paired with the ultra sticky tires (that perished very quickly) very much worked with our track, which is both bumpy and lacking in long straights.

As for the Camaro comparo, that is once again down to availability. GM canada (and USA) have ZERO camaros on their fleets. The SS 1LE we had previously featured was a 10-speed. We felt it more prudent to match the gearbox rather than the track kit setup, especially because it was only a straight-line race and the LT1 was the only one we could find in the time we had thanks to a very kind dealership. You'll notice no other upcoming comparo (Savagegeese, Hagerty) even features a Camaro AFAIK, because they couldn't find one at all. The good news for the Camaro crowd is that the one we did feature is likely even quicker in a straight line than the SS1LE. But yes in a perfect world, we would have had a manual ss1le.

As for our previous video where we compared a PP to a 1LE, that was a price matched comparison, and its not our fault that Ford nerfed the PP to match closer to a PP1 than a PP2. And at the very least, between the two videos, you now have all the laptimes required to make a full assessment.

Thanks,

James

P.S. We also went to the extra length to bring a Mach1 out as a service to the Mustang crowd, who have always wondered how it compared!!!

 

[Mustang406]

My favorite part of the video was when they said if the 21 Mach 1 was on the Trofeos that they think it would have a faster lap than the DH.

 

[rchandler9]

It’s good to finally see a review from Throttle House where they didn’t trash (possibly deserved) the Mustang. They are probably my favorite reviewers, and I do trust their opinion. Their reviews thus far have taken away some of my excitement for my Mustang…until now. What a great comparison of all the cars, and they even threw on the Mach 1! Crazy lap time for the Dark Horse too!

That being said I am SO excited for my Dark Horse!! It has actually made it out of “Ramp 59” and is finally on its way!

 

[agreywolfe]

Great video, love seeing rumbling V8s tear down the strip and track. The lap times and comments they made kind of reaffirms my point from the GT video. The Dark Horse is clearly an amazing platform that's an upgrade over the Mach 1, and that Mach 1 proves that whatever short coming any stock mustang has, the aftermarket will have an answer.

Side note: I realy want to get that DH HP wing for my car lol.

 

[rchandler9]

Hey mate, hope you don't mind me replying but I do so because Thomas and I care about the Mustang forum and i'd love to dispel any displeasure from our videos.

To address your first point about street driving and daily usage, we simply didn't have the car on the street. There was no press car available at the time of filming so instead thanks to the kindness of an owner, we used a flatbed to bring one directly to our track for filming that one day only.

Thanks to Toronto having seasons, to have waited any longer for Ford Canada to get their shit together would have meant potentially never making a piece of content with it to begin with. Apologies, I'd love to have lived with it and given impressions. But something tells me the Trofeo RS tires that were on it might have made daily duty a little less comfortable in downtown Toronto, what with all our streetcar tracks and all.

As for other options on the DH, we rarely if ever run through what a build/spec sheet would look like in our reviews. Let Raiti's Rides or someone else tell you that info, but something tells me you as a forum member are probably already filled in on that stuff so I'm not sure who that info would be for.

As for it being faster than the ZLE, that's totally fair to point out we didn't discuss it. I think mostly it was because of how shockingly quick the DH time was. All of what you see is recorded in real time. it is not rehearsed. It is not scripted. So my shock probably didn't help me gather my thoughts. But seeing as I'm here answering, the answer is most likely that the fixed dampers on the ZLE punished the lap time on our track, whereas the magneride in the Dark Horse paired with the ultra sticky tires (that perished very quickly) very much worked with our track, which is both bumpy and lacking in long straights.

As for the Camaro comparo, that is once again down to availability. GM canada (and USA) have ZERO camaros on their fleets. The SS 1LE we had previously featured was a 10-speed. We felt it more prudent to match the gearbox rather than the track kit setup, especially because it was only a straight-line race and the LT1 was the only one we could find in the time we had thanks to a very kind dealership. You'll notice no other upcoming comparo (Savagegeese, Hagerty) even features a Camaro AFAIK, because they couldn't find one at all. The good news for the Camaro crowd is that the one we did feature is likely even quicker in a straight line than the SS1LE. But yes in a perfect world, we would have had a manual ss1le.

As for our previous video where we compared a PP to a 1LE, that was a price matched comparison, and its not our fault that Ford nerfed the PP to match closer to a PP1 than a PP2. And at the very least, between the two videos, you now have all the laptimes required to make a full assessment.

Thanks,

James

P.S. We also went to the extra length to bring a Mach1 out as a service to the Mustang crowd, who have always wondered how it compared!!!

All great and honest reviews of the new and old mustangs!! I really enjoy your reviews/videos!

Your s650 reviews thus far have taken away some of my excitement for my Mustang…until now. What a great comparison of all the cars, and you even threw in the Mach 1! Crazy lap time for the Dark Horse too!

That being said I am SO excited for my Dark Horse!! It has actually made it out of “Ramp 59” and is finally on its way!

 

[Zig]

Hey mate, hope you don't mind …

As for our previous video where we compared a PP to a 1LE, that was a price matched comparison, and its not our fault that Ford nerfed the PP to match closer to a PP1 than a PP2. And at the very least, between the two videos, you now have all the laptimes required to make a full assessment.

Thanks,

James

P.S. We also went to the extra length to bring a Mach1 out as a service to the Mustang crowd, who have always wondered how it compared!!!

by chance is the result ‘official’, didn’t notice it on the leaderboard on your website

 

[krisk]

Hey mate, hope you don't mind me replying but I do so because Thomas and I care about the Mustang forum and i'd love to dispel any displeasure from our videos.

To address your first point about street driving and daily usage, we simply didn't have the car on the street. There was no press car available at the time of filming so instead thanks to the kindness of an owner, we used a flatbed to bring one directly to our track for filming that one day only.

Thanks to Toronto having seasons, to have waited any longer for Ford Canada to get their shit together would have meant potentially never making a piece of content with it to begin with. Apologies, I'd love to have lived with it and given impressions. But something tells me the Trofeo RS tires that were on it might have made daily duty a little less comfortable in downtown Toronto, what with all our streetcar tracks and all.

As for other options on the DH, we rarely if ever run through what a build/spec sheet would look like in our reviews. Let Raiti's Rides or someone else tell you that info, but something tells me you as a forum member are probably already filled in on that stuff so I'm not sure who that info would be for.

As for it being faster than the ZLE, that's totally fair to point out we didn't discuss it. I think mostly it was because of how shockingly quick the DH time was. All of what you see is recorded in real time. it is not rehearsed. It is not scripted. So my shock probably didn't help me gather my thoughts. But seeing as I'm here answering, the answer is most likely that the fixed dampers on the ZLE punished the lap time on our track, whereas the magneride in the Dark Horse paired with the ultra sticky tires (that perished very quickly) very much worked with our track, which is both bumpy and lacking in long straights.

As for the Camaro comparo, that is once again down to availability. GM canada (and USA) have ZERO camaros on their fleets. The SS 1LE we had previously featured was a 10-speed. We felt it more prudent to match the gearbox rather than the track kit setup, especially because it was only a straight-line race and the LT1 was the only one we could find in the time we had thanks to a very kind dealership. You'll notice no other upcoming comparo (Savagegeese, Hagerty) even features a Camaro AFAIK, because they couldn't find one at all. The good news for the Camaro crowd is that the one we did feature is likely even quicker in a straight line than the SS1LE. But yes in a perfect world, we would have had a manual ss1le.

As for our previous video where we compared a PP to a 1LE, that was a price matched comparison, and its not our fault that Ford nerfed the PP to match closer to a PP1 than a PP2. And at the very least, between the two videos, you now have all the laptimes required to make a full assessment.

Thanks,

James

P.S. We also went to the extra length to bring a Mach1 out as a service to the Mustang crowd, who have always wondered how it compared!!!

Thank you for the reviews; I think you guys do a great job and keep it entertaining. Some people will never be happy with any reviewer because they didn’t cover it in “this” scenario or do “that” comparison. As you said there are plenty of reviews to give other details people may be looking for. Keep up the great work! Btw, I loved the Weathertech ad with the goats in the GT/1LE video.

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