(Dark)Horse Horsepower is lower than we thought?

[S650 GT]

I started this thread because horsepower is something very confusing.
The reason why this is confusing, is because there are so many factors to take into account.

I'm from Europe and I'm an American muscle car fan. Huge engines with huge amount of power.. that's what they said..

You have Brake Horsepower (BHP) and Wheel Horsepower (WHP). This is what most of us know.
- BHP refers to the power generated and measured at the crankshaft just outside the engine.
- WHP is measured at the wheels.

Many American car manufacturers advertise BHP, but they don't tell you this.
Many European car manufacturers advertise with WHP and they also don't tell you this, but it's logical to advertise the power you get on the wheels.
(But not in the US LOL).

So now you have two cars for example.
- Ford Mustang Dark Horse (500HP)
- BMW M2 (453HP)

The M2 outperforms the Dark Horse. Not only because of the weight, but also because it has more power.

When putting both cars on the dyno, the Dark Horse makes 408 HP (Steeda) and 420 WHP (another video I saw) instead of the 500HP.
The BMW M2 makes even a bit more power on the dyno what BMW advertised.

Now it gets even more confusing.

Example:

You live in the States and you decide to buy 2 cars from your local dealership.
You go look at the BMW M2 and it says 500HP. You test it on the dyno and it makes 500HP.
You go look at a Mustang and it says 500HP. You test it on the dyno and it makes 415HP.

This to me feels like a scam.

All those numbers just to look good, but in fact you get almost 100HP less than what they advertised.

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[Baldilocks]

I started this thread because horsepower is something very confusing.
There reason why this is confusing, is because there are so many factors to take into account.

I'm from Europe and I'm an American muscle car fan. Huge engines with huge amount of power.. that's what they said..

You have Brake Horsepower (BHP) and Wheel Horsepower (WHP). This is what most of us know.
- BHP refers to the power generated and measured at the crankshaft just outside the engine.
- WHP is measured at the wheels.

Many American car manufacturers advertise BHP, but they don't tell you this.
Many European car manufacturers advertise with WHP and they also don't tell you this, but it's logical to advertise the power you get on the wheels.
(But not in the US LOL).

So now you have two cars for example.
- Ford Mustang Dark Horse (500HP)
- BMW M2 (453HP)

The M2 outperforms the Dark Horse. Not only because of the weight, but also because it has more power.

When putting both cars on the dyno, the Dark Horse makes 408 HP (Steeda) and 420 WHP (another video I saw) instead of the 500HP.
The BMW M2 makes even a bit more power on the dyno what BMW advertised.

Now it gets even more confusing.

Example:

You live in the States and you decide to buy 2 cars from your local dealership.
You go look at the BMW M2 and it says 500HP. You test it on the dyno and it makes 500HP.
You go look at a Mustang and it says 500HP. You test it on the dyno and it makes 415HP.

This to me feels like a scam.

All those numbers just to look good, but in fact you get almost 100HP less than what they advertised.

Exactly. Like I posted in another thread, the M240i makes just as much power and torque as the Mustang GT but it's "only " rated at 382 horsepower.

 

[Zig]

That’s why paying attention to the fine print is important

 

[S650 GT]

Exactly. Like I posted in another thread, the M240i makes just as much power and torque as the Mustang GT but it's "only " rated at 382 horsepower.

There should be a measurement for all vehicles.

I knew that European HP is slightly different than American horsepower, but I never new that even inside the same country, the cars are advertised in different measurements.

Like I said. In the same country the BMW is advertised in WHP and the Mustang is advertised in BHP.

They should stop doing this.
The only reason what I think of is money. American cars need to sell, so they use ofcourse another way to look better unfortunately.

 

[Zig]

If had to explain you wouldn’t understand.

although not fair and not your fault. You admitted as such in your opening. We both (countries) have a habit of assuming the pretext.

 

[Baldilocks]

Now just imagine if they were quoted in pre-1970's Gross HP. ;)

 

[Q6543]

This IS the American way!

we call it measuring “from the back of the balls”

 

[LCDRChemEng]

I started this thread because horsepower is something very confusing.
There reason why this is confusing, is because there are so many factors to take into account.

I'm from Europe and I'm an American muscle car fan. Huge engines with huge amount of power.. that's what they said..

You have Brake Horsepower (BHP) and Wheel Horsepower (WHP). This is what most of us know.
- BHP refers to the power generated and measured at the crankshaft just outside the engine.
- WHP is measured at the wheels.

Many American car manufacturers advertise BHP, but they don't tell you this.
Many European car manufacturers advertise with WHP and they also don't tell you this, but it's logical to advertise the power you get on the wheels.
(But not in the US LOL).

So now you have two cars for example.
- Ford Mustang Dark Horse (500HP)
- BMW M2 (453HP)

The M2 outperforms the Dark Horse. Not only because of the weight, but also because it has more power.

When putting both cars on the dyno, the Dark Horse makes 408 HP (Steeda) and 420 WHP (another video I saw) instead of the 500HP.
The BMW M2 makes even a bit more power on the dyno what BMW advertised.

Now it gets even more confusing.

Example:

You live in the States and you decide to buy 2 cars from your local dealership.
You go look at the BMW M2 and it says 500HP. You test it on the dyno and it makes 500HP.
You go look at a Mustang and it says 500HP. You test it on the dyno and it makes 415HP.

This to me feels like a scam.

All those numbers just to look good, but in fact you get almost 100HP less than what they advertised.

That's because in 'Murica the horses are much smaller than in Europe. It takes more American horses to pull the same weight/speed compared to Belgian or Shire horses.

 

[LCDRChemEng]

This IS the American way!

we call it measuring “from the back of the balls”

So if you weigh 600 lbs, you'd be hung like bull...assuming you could even reach that far back to measure!

 

[Zig]

When meters are shorter than yards numbers don’t always mean the same. Standards and common accepted certification practices are as close as we get and then it’s to the track to see how well / poorly they prove to be.

 

[ThreePedalPlow]

I suppose it makes it harder to cross shop but American muscle cars have been rated by the flywheel power since before I was born. I'm 39. Camaro, Corvette, Challenger and Charger have also been rated by the flywheel power during that time which is what most people are cross shopping. There was a bit of a fiasco when the 99 Cobra came out as far as not being what people expected. I think Ford recalled the 99 Cobra cars from what I remember or at least offered free maintenance to increase the output of the cars that weren't producing what was expected.

 

[S650 GT]

That's because in 'Murica the horses are much smaller than in Europe. It takes more American horses to pull the same weight/speed compared to Belgian or Shire horses.

This is funny but should be the other way around. Big American horses, not small baby horses. LOLL

 

[S650 GT]

If had to explain you wouldn’t understand.

although not fair and not your fault. You admitted as such in your opening. We both (countries) have a habit of assuming the pretext.

But even in the same country, people assume different because of the lack of knowledge and because of the commercial way of manufacturers to advertise power.

Kids start from small to talk about horses and the only thing they know is, the higher the number, the more powerfull it is.

So when a kid says to another kid that their Mustang is 500 horses and the other kid says that his father has a BMW with 450 horses, the look of this would be that the BMW has less horses.

With the American way, you will never know how much horses you actually make unless you put it on the dyno.

 

[Lidsoff]

Different regulations, governments, engines. Germans say theirs is less probably becuase their strict regulations but in the end give out more. In the US the EPA hasn’t fucked us 100% yet so manufactures can give that heres 100% crank. It also doesn’t help that most of these vehicles aren’t near broken in yet and with heat, humidity, and some cases hurricanes the weather is a big factor in those gains.

 

[S650 GT]

Different regulations, governments, engines. Germans say theirs is less probably becuase their strict regulations but in the end give out more. In the US the EPA hasn’t fucked us 100% yet so manufactures can give that heres 100% crank. It also doesn’t help that most of these vehicles aren’t near broken in yet and with heat, humidity, and some cases hurricanes the weather is a big factor in those gains.

The strict regulations in Europe is because of the CO2 emissions. This has nothing to do with advertising low and giving high.

Cars in Europe are tested on CO2 and on all other things before getting approved.

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