Do we think Ford is going to make an S650 GT500/Cobra?

[9secondko]

That’s quite literally illegal, they have a fiduciary responsibility to maximize shareholder value… not consumer.

And that is exactly what I did, 300a 10r80 GT with a whipple for 55K all in…. That’s the consumer value car… nothing else in the market could come close to overall performance per dollar.

LOL. You know nothing about economies of scale.

If any of what you said is true, there’d be no end to inflation. Ever. And everything would be unobtainium. Thankfully, nothing you said in bold is true. If they were losing money - selling less than cost - then they could be in trouble. But even that depends on a number of factors. However, price gouging - that is definitley an issue (at least in my state). In the case of cars like the dark horse, that's pretty close to the line, if not over it.

As it is Ford needs to move Mustangs. Pricing them so high isn’t working.

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[DeluxeStang]

Ford needs to get pricing under control. Mustangs are supposed to do more for less. Bang for the buck.

a GT500/Cobra should realistically cost 10k more than current dark horse prices.

you can literally buy a GT and supercharger combo from a dealer with warranty. That’s a po boy gt500 already.
Give it suspension, a DCT, and lightweighting, some body panel changes, and boom. Sell it at scale.

but no. Ford wants to milk pricing to outer space and back.

The best solution would be to find a way to get some sort of scale back on your side. Based off what I've heard, the mustang needs a new platform to do the things Ford's CEO wants to do, like shed a lot of weight, and make a sedan on it. I find that likely considering Farley has said they're investing more heavily in mustang than ever.

Here's what I would do. Develop a next gen mustang platform that can accommodate multiple powertrain types like Dodge's latest charger, gas, hybrid, and EV. So you have a platform that's future proofed regardless of what direction the industry blows. Make more use of aluminum, and maybe even a bit of carbon fiber in key areas without using so much that the price goes nuts.

Design the platform so it can be stretched to accommodate a sedan. Now you're distributing the development costs for that new platform instead of 1. Oh, and I'm just getting started.

 

[9secondko]

Realistically, it's not what enthusiasts want to hear, but unless the mustang becomes an EV, this is just our reality. Gas cars are gonna become far more expensive than EVs long term, it's already starting to happen with things like the mach-e now dropping down into the 30s, and even more affordable Ford EVs on the way.

Gas cars are gonna have to be engineered to offer ever improving performance and reliability, while meeting constantly stricter emissions requirements. That's all gonna be the case from now to the end of time, those regulations aren't going away. So this means engineering gas engines is gonna become more, and more expensive over time. All while the pool of gas car buyers, and especially gas powered sports cars, declines. So you're having to spend more money to develop these products, yet having to distribute those increased expenses across fewer units. This raises the per unit cost significantly, an expense that has to be passed along to the consumer to stay in business.

disagree with the first paragraph. Respectfully, no enthusiast wants an ev. But they are ant an ICE vehicle to beat one.

the second mirrors many of my posts on this forum.

Ford will likely need to do a mild hybrid. Off the line performsmce is where EVs shine. But not necessarily 1320 etc.

There are vehicles currently that show what a mile hybrid setup can do and it’s really impressive. Better than strictly one way or the other.

Will this increase cost? Of course. But, as I’ve posted about endlessly here, Ford has already artificially inflated Mustang prices as if it were som all-new, ultra high tech platform. It’s not. It’s old. Really old. Ford has been saving money on the mustang for a very long time now. Time to add value without pumping up the price.

And yes, there’s absolutely room to do that. Price will go up. But shouldn’t be by much. The performance value however, would skyrocket. Everyone and their grandma would be begging for a Mustang.

 

[DeluxeStang]

The next gen mustang seems like it's gonna keep the V8 and Ecoboost powertrains around, but will likely have to use hybrids. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, hybrids can be incredible performance cars, remember the McLaren p1 and la Ferrari are hybrids. So it can make driving even more fun.

Now share those 5.0 and 2.3 hybrids with things like the f-150, bronco, and ranger. Now you really have scale on your side. I'm still not done. Ford RS 200 OR mid-engine mustang baby, that's right. Let's go after the c8, it's getting all the attention, it's making GM billions of dollars, no reason not to go after it.

If Ford brings back the RS 200 and that's been hinted at, keep in mind they filed the trademark, Ford's CEO said he wants the RS badge to return on future cars, and Ford themselves made that RS 200 concept. It looks good, but it needs to be a little less bulbous and bubbly. The proportions and surfaces need some work, but it's a strong starting point.

 

[DeluxeStang]

Here's what I'd love to see, normal mustang coupe, most people don't use the back seat anyways, let's be honest, unless you have toddlers, or groceries, it's useless. I predict most mustang lovers who want a usable backseat will go to a mustang sedan if it looks good and offers things like a V8 still.

So make the coupe a two seater, push the a-pillar back and/or move the front wheels up. This would not only make the mustang look even better, truly stunning, it would also reduce rotational inertia, less mass in the overhangs, so handling would improve a lot. If the a-pillar was moved back and the front wheel was moved up, then maybe, just maybe, Ford could also package the engine by the front axle, or a little behind, effectively turning the next mustang coupe into a Front-mid engine car while further enhancing the sexy long hood look. Could you imagine how incredible it would be?

Then you make a RS 200 with a hybridized 2.3 Ecoboost making 450-500 hp son! The same 2.3 that as previously mentioned, is shared with other Ford models to keep development costs low, just with slightly more power.

So you have the mustang coupe, even more attractive and better handling, you have a mustang sedan, and you have an RS 200. The coupe, supercar, and sedan, all sharing some parts. You could even build all of them at flat rock which at its peak, could handle producing over 300k cars a year.

 

[Q6543]

If any of what you said is true, there’d be no end to inflation. Ever.

Yes

 

[REV745DH24]

Probably in the year 2026.

I think it will be a semi-GTD re-named as Cobra or GT500! Who knows….?

 

[9secondko]

The next gen mustang seems like it's gonna keep the V8 and Ecoboost powertrains around, but will likely have to use hybrids. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, hybrids can be incredible performance cars, remember the McLaren p1 and la Ferrari are hybrids. So it can make driving even more fun.

Now share those 5.0 and 2.3 hybrids with things like the f-150, bronco, and ranger. Now you really have scale on your side. I'm still not done. Ford RS 200 OR mid-engine mustang baby, that's right. Let's go after the c8, it's getting all the attention, it's making GM billions of dollars, no reason not to go after it.

If Ford brings back the RS 200 and that's been hinted at, keep in mind they filed the trademark, Ford's CEO said he wants the RS badge to return on future cars, and Ford themselves made that RS 200 concept. It looks good, but it needs to be a little less bulbous and bubbly. The proportions and surfaces need some work, but it's a strong starting point.

That's what I have been saying forever. Economy of scale. Ford will need to hybridize in order to keep the performance that some of its models need to compete and win. The Mustang being the #1 reason. Get the F150 lineup setup and you've already won the battle. A more powerful Mustang version would be paid for already. And nothing would be able to keep up. Ford just needs to remember that it's just fine to offer ridiculous value for the money and get back to bang for the buck - even if that bang is louder than cars going for much bigger bucks. Everyone and their grandma. I am telling you. Everyone and their grandma. can you even imagine a a twin turbo V8 with e-boost? The stuff of dreams.

Ford has already gained experience everywhere needed for the best performance on the planet -- except base platform. They've got suspension, powertrain, and transmission chops. Just put it together already and don't charge unobtainium to do it. Even the GTD as cool as it is, is basically Ford's version of the $75k (more than the supercharged ZL1 of the same time) 2015 Z28 but with a supercharger. Chevy even had the multimatic DSSV shocks way back then. Adjusted for inlfation, that car would cost $91,000 today. It seems everyone can do it but Ford. With the economy looking to get a kick in the pants, Let's hope this changes in the near future.

 

[9secondko]

Yes

Correct. Nothing illegal about it. It is called moving product. Something Ford needs help with at the moment.

 

[Upacurb]

If the GT350R was the same price as a base np option GT500 in 2020

Well if a fully loaded Dark Horse is about 90K - my bet is the base Cobra Dark Horse R whatever it will be called will start in the low 90s with a fully loaded version being close to 120K to 125K

 

[IFFV68]

Realistically, it's not what enthusiasts want to hear, but unless the mustang becomes an EV, this is just our reality. Gas cars are gonna become far more expensive than EVs long term, it's already starting to happen with things like the mach-e now dropping down into the 30s, and even more affordable Ford EVs on the way.

Gas cars are gonna have to be engineered to offer ever improving performance and reliability, while meeting constantly stricter emissions requirements. That's all gonna be the case from now to the end of time, those regulations aren't going away. So this means engineering gas engines is gonna become more, and more expensive over time. All while the pool of gas car buyers, and especially gas powered sports cars, declines. So you're having to spend more money to develop these products, yet having to distribute those increased expenses across fewer units. This raises the per unit cost significantly, an expense that has to be passed along to the consumer to stay in business.

Everything we purchase is shipped in a Boat, Aircraft or by Truck.
The Gasoline & Diesel Engine will be around for a lot longer than you think.
How many Electric Semi Trucks have you seen.
maybe some day but not for a very long time. The Electric Power Grid will have to be completely re-engineered.
It will be vey expensive and time consuming.
How many Ev’s do you own.
I will never purchase an Electric Vehicle.
you can see them Burned up on the Highway such as I-25 a few years ago.
Only a pile of Plastic remains.
what happened to those Electric School Buses?
Most orders were cancelled. They were catching on fire.
No Thank You.

 

[DeluxeStang]

Affordable and Mustang is becoming less and less of a thing. I was watching Jay Leno's Garage the other day and he had a guy from Ford on there who said a 1960s (can't remember which) Mustang would cost $19,000 in today's dollars. When an actual GT costs at least twice that (or 3x that depending on how you option it) it's a bit of a gut punch.

So yeah... probably will happen, but not at an "affordable" price.

But it's worth remembering the most badass production mustang from the 1960s would get smoked by a base mustang Ecoboost. The new Ecoboost is throwing down a 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds, I believe the 60s gt 500 did it in around 6 seconds or a little more. Then you get to the corner, and the Ecoboost just extends it's lead.

Adjusted for inflation, a 1960s Shelby gt 350 was around 50 grand I believe. So it was more expensive than a base s650 5.0, but slower than the Ecoboost. So we're actually getting more for the money than ever before. A top of the line explorer in the 90s was like 30 something grand, over 50k today, but had less comfort and quality than a base modern day explorer.

The maverick is comparable in price to the model T, and it's actually a great truck compared to the model T which is, well not beyond its historical significance. Cars from the 60s when they were cheap were cheap because they came with nothing, could only last a few years without major issues, and did 0-60 runs comparable to our modern economy cars.

Modern cars are more expensive because they give you more of everything. More handling, more fuel economy, more reliability, more safety, more practicality, etc.

 

[DeluxeStang]

Everything we purchase is shipped in a Boat, Aircraft or by Truck.
The Gasoline & Diesel Engine will be around for a lot longer than you think.
How many Electric Semi Trucks have you seen.
maybe some day but not for a very long time. The Electric Power Grid will have to be completely re-engineered.
It will be vey expensive and time consuming.
How many Ev’s do you own.
I will never purchase an Electric Vehicle.
you can see them Burned up on the Highway such as I-25 a few years ago.
Only a pile of Plastic remains.
what happened to those Electric School Buses?
Most orders were cancelled. They were catching on fire.
No Thank You.

My point is ICE cars are gonna become more and more expensive because it's gonna get harder and harder to engineer them to the standards we expect as consumers. This is especially true for ICE performance cars. This was in turn a response to another post talking about bringing affordablilty back to the mustang range, which I don't believe is gonna happen sadly. But let's try to get back on topic at hand, high performance variants of the s650.

My guess is we'll see something around 100-120k like someone else mentioned. Throw in the GTD motor, maybe some of the suspension from the GTD as well, styling elements from it perhaps, and a dash of carbon fiber, and there you go.

 

[BoostRabbitGT]

But it's worth remembering the most badass production mustang from the 1960s would get smoked by a base mustang Ecoboost. The new Ecoboost is throwing down a 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds, I believe the 60s gt 500 did it in around 6 seconds or a little more. Then you get to the corner, and the Ecoboost just extends it's lead.

Adjusted for inflation, a 1960s Shelby gt 350 was around 50 grand I believe. So it was more expensive than a base s650 5.0, but slower than the Ecoboost. So we're actually getting more for the money than ever before. A top of the line explorer in the 90s was like 30 something grand, over 50k today, but had less comfort and quality than a base modern day explorer.

The maverick is comparable in price to the model T, and it's actually a great truck compared to the model T which is, well not beyond its historical significance. Cars from the 60s when they were cheap were cheap because they came with nothing, could only last a few years without major issues, and did 0-60 runs comparable to our modern economy cars.

Modern cars are more expensive because they give you more of everything. More handling, more fuel economy, more reliability, more safety, more practicality, etc.

"BuT, bUt, TeH eCoBoOsT sOuNdS lIkE cRaP iN a WeT bAg!" ---EcoBoost critics

That aside, I do have to wonder if it's factually/historically true whenever people say "Older cars were built better and last longer than cars nowadays!" I'd love to see lots of S550/S650s still going strong on the road 15-30 years from now.

 

[DeluxeStang]

"BuT, bUt, TeH eCoBoOsT sOuNdS lIkE cRaP iN a WeT bAg!" ---EcoBoost critics

That aside, I do have to wonder if it's factually/historically true whenever people say "Older cars were built better and last longer than cars nowadays!" I'd love to see lots of S550/S650s still going strong on the road 15-30 years from now.

To put it into perspective, the average car from the 60s lasted less than 7 years from assembly line to junkyard. I believe the term is survivorship bias, but I could be wrong. People see the 1950s and 60s cars at car shows, and think they must be reliable because they're still around, ignoring the tens of not hundreds of thousands of dollars spent to restore them. Meanwhile the super duty that towed the bel air to the show has 300k miles on it and hasn't had an oil change in 10k miles.

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