New S650 Mustang render from Road & Track

[Bikeman315]

Here is another thing to consider when it comes to hydrogen power ... as I understand it, hydrogen is typically obtained by cracking water into hydrogen and oxygen via electrolysis. Where does the energy come from to generate hydrogen at large scale? Yes, hydrogen is released as a byproduct in certain manufacturing processes, and there is a growing industry to capture those byproducts for sale and use, but that is not yet operating at a large enough scale to supply current hydrogen demands.

Not sure which ultimately trades better, generating electricity to power EVs or generating electricity to generate hydrogen to use as a fuel source to power hydrogen vehicles, but typically, the more steps involved, the lower the overall efficiency.

Unless they can eleminate or great reduce the flammability of hydrogen it will never be used in massed produced cars. Way too much liability.

Not so sure I would agree with that. In my mind, a halo car is something like the Ford GT, very low production volumes and priced deep into the 6 digit territory. The Mach-E is being produced in much larger volumes and even though it is more expensive than a garden variety eco-boost Mustang, it is on par with other EVs in the market and in the same neighborhood as Mach 1 (and while the Mach 1 is a very nice ride, IMHO it does not qualify as a "halo" car)

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[ay1820]

Unless they can eleminate or great reduce the flammability of hydrogen it will never be used in massed produced cars. Way too much liability.

Agree ... but my point was that even if they could make it safe, it is still no "greener" than other options. There is no free lunch here ... it takes energy to move our shiny little boxes around and that energy has a cost and creates consequences.

 

[Bikeman315]

Agree ... but my point was that even if they could make it safe, it is still no "greener" than other options. There is no free lunch here ... it takes energy to move our shiny little boxes around and that energy has a cost and creates consequences.

I totally agree. All "sources" start out by being green. It's in the production of those sources where things get difficult & confusing. But as I have said numerous times the shift away from fossil fuels had absolutely nothing to do with going/being green. Back in the seventies, as it is now, it was all about the money.

 

[ay1820]

Back in the seventies, as it is now, it was all about the money.

It always is

 

[Hack]

Can one say Hindenburg? No thanks on the hydrogen.

Gasoline is arguably worse than hydrogen as far as the threat of fire and explosions. It's just that people are accustomed to using gas as a fuel.

 

[IPOGT]

I totally agree. All "sources" start out by being green. It's in the production of those sources where things get difficult & confusing. But as I have said numerous times the shift away from fossil fuels had absolutely nothing to do with going/being green. Back in the seventies, as it is now, it was all about the money.

I think there should be gas reclamation stations in all public and private bathrooms. That’s about as green as you can get.

 

[ay1820]

Gasoline is arguably worse than hydrogen as far as the threat of fire and explosions. It's just that people are accustomed to using gas as a fuel.

Not sure that I would agree with that. Although gasoline vapors are easy to ignite, gasoline in a liquid state is actually fairly hard to ignite. Further, liquid gasoline is fairly easy to store and the containers, plumbing, pumps, etc used to handle liquid gasoline are fairly easy to make leak proof. As a result, gasoline is fairly safe to handle without the need for specialized equipment.

At temperatures above 423 deg F below zero, hydrogen exists as a gas that is highly combustible. Since hydrogen is literally the smallest molecule, it is extremely hard to make containers and plumbing leakproof. Specialized equipment and connections are required to store and transport hydrogen in safe and reliable manner. You can't just stick a nozzle into a hole to fill your tank.

Also, improper maintenance of the fuel system in a gasoline engine most often results in a few drips of gasoline on your garage floor. Improper maintenance of a hydrogen fuel system could result in filling your garage with a gas that can be ignited with the slightest spark.

I am not saying that gasoline cannot be dangerous or that the problems with hydrogen cannot be solved, but with current technology and practices, gasoline is a far safer fuel source than hydrogen.

 

[The Demon]

Wow. I really don’t give a shit about the new Gen Mustang until they show us a real picture. Why are you guys arguing about something that doesn’t exist.

 

[ay1820]

Wow. I really don’t give a shit about the new Gen Mustang until they show us a real picture. Why are you guys arguing about something that doesn’t exist.

If people stopped arguing about things that don't exist, then the internet would cease to exist, tech stocks would crumble, my 401k would crash, and I would have to sell my Mustang in order to pay for groceries

 

[Bikeman315]

Wow. I really don’t give a shit about the new Gen Mustang until they show us a real picture. Why are you guys arguing about something that doesn’t exist.

 

[Hack]

Not sure that I would agree with that. Although gasoline vapors are easy to ignite, gasoline in a liquid state is actually fairly hard to ignite. Further, liquid gasoline is fairly easy to store and the containers, plumbing, pumps, etc used to handle liquid gasoline are fairly easy to make leak proof. As a result, gasoline is fairly safe to handle without the need for specialized equipment.

At temperatures above 423 deg F below zero, hydrogen exists as a gas that is highly combustible. Since hydrogen is literally the smallest molecule, it is extremely hard to make containers and plumbing leakproof. Specialized equipment and connections are required to store and transport hydrogen in safe and reliable manner. You can't just stick a nozzle into a hole to fill your tank.

Also, improper maintenance of the fuel system in a gasoline engine most often results in a few drips of gasoline on your garage floor. Improper maintenance of a hydrogen fuel system could result in filling your garage with a gas that can be ignited with the slightest spark.

I am not saying that gasoline cannot be dangerous or that the problems with hydrogen cannot be solved, but with current technology and practices, gasoline is a far safer fuel source than hydrogen.

Those are a lot of good points and you are right.

I don't think any of them are impossible to overcome, but there are definitely barriers to using hydrogen as a fuel. Not least is energy density.

Wow. I really don’t give a shit about the new Gen Mustang until they show us a real picture. Why are you guys arguing about something that doesn’t exist.

Why are you arguing about our conversation? We were just talking politely until you came along with your four letter words. I'm offended.

 

[The Demon]

Those are a lot of good points and you are right.

I don't think any of them are impossible to overcome, but there are definitely barriers to using hydrogen as a fuel. Not least is energy density.




Why are you arguing about our conversation? We were just talking politely until you came along with your four letter words. I'm offended.

You talkin’ to me? Then who the hell else are you talkin’ to? You talkin’ to me? Well I’m the only one here. Who the fuck do you think you’re talking to?”

 

[TonyNJ]

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a40405261/2024-ford-mustang/

Looks like the mach1 grill a little.

 

[IPOGT]

I like it. I heard they may do a non export USA only heritage edition. Let’s see if there’s any truth to that internet rumor.

 

[because_murica]

I like it. I heard they may do a non export USA only heritage edition. Let’s see if there’s any truth to that internet rumor.

Certainly possible. The latest Shelbys were US only.

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