Shelby American shows off GT350 and GT350R at Barret Jackon - well kind of

[Katastrophe]

Shelby's clapback took me by surprise at first. But the more I look at it, the more it makes sense. This isn't just some small thing to them. It's their bread and butter. It's how their people (OUR people?) earn a living. And this kind of work is getting more difficutl as automakers lock things down. Of course, people have a right to express their views and many of us here have done exactly that - even a majority seem to be less than entusiastic. However, the issue that Shelby addressed was that some critics didn't just critique. They went off he rails, getting slanderous, vulgar, and disrespectful on shelby accounts. it was shameful. At some point, they had to say soemthing. People were just being their worst selves and turnign the place into a cesspool. It was ridiculous. In that way, I applaid Shelby for cleaning it up.

Getting to the car itself, it's not bad at all. It looks rad, has all the right parts, even if we can buy them ourselves, comes with a warranty, likely performs like a dream, and carries the Shelby legacy in it's blood. that works for me.

At the same time, it exists next to the SuperSnake which is simply the better car all around. It seems redundant. I suppose the SS was just a little out of reach for some and that's where the GT350 comes in.

Personally, I don't have an issue with the GT350 being what it is, though I certainly have criticized it not having more custom engineering effort. The 350 is the car that a lot of customers can buy. Shelby had to make this car to stay healthy.

The problem isn't so much the 350 being a collection of available performance parts. The 2011 (yes, there is such a thing) GT350 was just a supercharged 5.0 with aftermarket parts. so this isn't new. The problem is that we have been wanting some actual differentiators with varous Mustangs and we aren't getting that. The Ford dealers sell an affordable supercharged GT that makes great power, Then we get a crazy expensive GTD and it barely makes more. Then we have all the tuners out doing the same thing. Shelby, rightly regarded as the best of them, comes out and gets blasted. In reality it's not fair to them. It's a good effort. It's just that it's an evolution, not a revolution. One thing that is great about the GTD is the testing and vetting and care into parts fitment. Shelby has done the research and testing of finding out which parts out there actually do the job. And they go into the car. Shelby also has taken the care to make sure all of the modifications are done right. No late-night garage bubble gum and duct tape from you or your local tuner.

The DH costing what it does, I would buy this over the Dark Horse any day of the week and have the far superior car - and nameplate. But also for that money, I may just save a bit more and get the ZR1.

I think we live in a time when we are so used to careless internet slams that we forget there are actual people behind usernames. we just saw Shelby visibly react to getting stung. We saw them hurt. and that sucks. I hope Shelby is around for another hundred years plus, putting out hot rods for us to enjoy. Thre will be times we have criticism and no doubt Shelby takes that to heart.

I remember really laying into Chelby online a few years back about how outdated their designs were. And they were. Seriously. it was kinda sad. But then this new SuperSnake came out and is one of the best looking Mustangs ever. very modern. it was like a totally different design team came in and modernized everything. Imagine my surprise when it was revealed it's the same designer who has been with the company forever now. He just learned some new tricks. And boy did he. Wow. so criticism is Ok. Sometimes it's taken to heart and good things result. But other times it is just mean-spirited. and that is sad to see.

The GT350 is a great car. It is what it is - an aftermarket Mustang hot rodded to the hills and back. The criticism is that it's an off the self parts car. And that's true. But it's the right parts and it creates the right car. it's basically the Ford GT500 plus. i think if they would have included a DCT and Tremec, then a lot of the criticism would die down, but the car would also likely be out of the prce bracket they wanted to keep it in as the more affordable Super Snake. But Mustang fans are a picky crowd. didn't use to be that way. But Ford has kind of riled us up with old platforms, minimal effort, and a newfound fascination with everything BUT the actual Mustang, even trying to push a more expensive ecoboost performace pack as an "RTR" (who the heck wants that?) - and this pent up frustration was taken out on Shelby.

Hopefully, we can get past this and get back to appreciating the living legends around us.

Excellent post.

Here's a thought, though. Why couldn't Shelby sell a Mustang that has ALL the looks of the GT350 on the exterior and interior...and just simply badge it as a "Shelby GT"? If they did that and gave the car a price VERY close to a Dark Horse, I'd be willing to bet more than a few people would give it a serious look. Sure it'll perform the same as a showroom stock GT/PP, but it would look KILLER.

Also, we must have typed our essays at the same time. Hahahaha!

Sponsored

 

[9secondko]

There are a few things with that post from Tracey that rub me the wrong way.

The obvious being disrespectful and hateful speech. Now, truthfully, I didn't wander over to their official page to read the comments for myself, but I'm no stranger to the internet. Mike Tyson summed it up best when he said, "Social media made y'all way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it". I wouldn't be surprised at what kind of comments I'd expect to see over there...

The other point that is a real head-scratcher, is the "education" directed at us, the potential consumers. Anytime a business has to go out of their way to try and PROVE why their product is worth what they're asking...well, it means they've already failed. This is further backed up by an article on Motortrend: Shelby American Brings Back the Mustang GT350 in 810-HP Guise

The author makes it painfully obvious how much of a rip-off this car is. I still stand by my opinion, that it is a gorgeous looking car (without the picnic table wing on the back). However, you can't fool me by saying you "tenaciously researched" all available drivetrain options. If that's the case, why has Shelby NEVER had a bespoke transmission and rear gear combo in any of their Mustangs of recent years? Magnum-XL w/ custom gear set + 4.30 rear gear. Make 5th gear 1:1 and 6th gear a 0.85 (ish) and have this car be redline-limited to around 285kph in 6th. The torque multiplication in the gears would be an absolute RIOT and because of the tight spacing, the Coyote, FOR ONCE IN IT'S LIFE, would have a proper manual transmission geared SPECIFICALLY for it's characteristics. This isn't a pushrod...it's a DOHC that loves to rev. Is it any wonder why the 10A from 2018 onwards absolutely transformed the cars performance?

Beyond that, give the car a little bit of a diet...even 100lbs would be noticeable. Last but not least, a REAL performance-tuned suspension. Not some PR BS about skid pad numbers either. I'm talking about a no-nonsense suspension tune that has a square setup of wheels/tires (285's all four corners) to go with it. AKA, a car that is unforgiving at the limit and requires real-deal driver skill to handle on a track. This is supposed to be a GT350 isn't it? This isn't supposed to be an everyman's car catering to unskilled drivers. This car should make you work and sweat for every ounce of performance. Get rid of the vague steering feel, make the car rotate on AND off throttle and get rid of any and all front-end push from OEM. If all of these things were done (especially the gearing) the car wouldn't even need engine upgrades. Intake/exhaust combo (maybe with some sick side exit exhausts with electronic actuators (Boss 302 anyone?)) and you'd have an ultra-reliable, absolute ripper of a car.

Sigh.....sorry fella's. I kinda' got carried here, lmfao.

I think you make a valid point with the weight savings. That's one area that is absolutely frustrating that NO ONE is working on. Not Ford, not Shelby, not anyone.

If Shelby made a few custom parts for ALL Shelby Mustangs strictly designed to be strong, yet lightweight, reducing the fat by at least 100 lbs., that would set them apart by themselves. They did develop a fantastic aluminum hood and I think carbon fiber front fenders have helped quite a bit. But I am talking suspension and rotating mass as well. I just wish they would have customized he front fenders since they had them redone in carbon fiber anyway. some stylized venting would have gone a long way. Makes the Super Snake look killer.

Great thoughts on the custom gearing as well.

 

[9secondko]

Excellent post.

Here's a thought, though. Why couldn't Shelby sell a Mustang that has ALL the looks of the GT350 on the exterior and interior...and just simply badge it as a "Shelby GT"? If they did that and gave the car a price VERY close to a Dark Horse, I'd be willing to bet more than a few people would give it a serious look. Sure it'll perform the same as a showroom stock GT/PP, but it would look KILLER.

Also, we must have typed our essays at the same time. Hahahaha!

Actually, I think you're onto soemthing there. the name would be unassuming and poeple wouldn't expect something beyond. But I put myself in Shelby's shoes and I would probably have stuck with the nameplate I owned that has rich hertiage and is just sitting on the sidelines.

The longtime designer is doing new tricks. Maybe the marketing peeps can learn some new things as well. Shelby GT would fit and people would accept it.

Now thar you've said that, I think the Super snake should have been called the 350 and the 350 should have been called what you suggest.

*Sigh*... as they say, hindsight is always 20/20. Foresight, not so much. LOL

I think we did post around the same time. funny that we were so wordy. shows the care I guess.

 

[Katastrophe]

Actually, I think you're onto soemthing there. the name would be unassuming and poeple wouldn't expect something beyond. But I put myself in Shelby's shoes and I would probably have stuck with the nameplate I owned that has rich hertiage and is just sitting on the sidelines.

The longtime designer is doing new tricks. Maybe the marketing peeps can learn some new things as well. Shelby GT would fit and people would accept it.

Now thar you've said that, I think the Super snake should have been called the 350 and the 350 should have been called what you suggest.

*Sigh*... as they say, hindsight is always 20/20. Foresight, not so much. LOL

I think we did post around the same time. funny that we were so wordy. shows the care I guess.

Oh, you're absolutely right...the passion was flowing! It's weird to me...weight savings and gearing are extremely overlooked pieces to the performance puzzle. Same with "feel". This is why the MX-5 will forever be a legend...the car may not have the numbers, but you can't deny the experience when you wring its neck through the twisties. Name another car that managed to stay nearly the same weight over 35 years...

Also, food for thought:

2007 Ford Shelby GT - First Test Road Test & Review - Motor Trend

And more recently:

2023 Shelby GT

 

[young at heart]

IMO Ford ruined the party for everyone else in 2016 (even Shelby) when they brought out their new GT350. Between 2016 and 2020 this car set the standard for what a GT350 should be and was by far the most evocative of the originals from 65-66 when they first came out. Sure there were reported engine issues but hey, it’s a thinly disguised race car that you can drive on the street for goodness sake. That’s what race cars do.

The key to tapping in to the real GT350’s soul I believe is natural aspiration, simplicity and weight. When you slap a blower on it the car becomes little more than one of a multitude of similar blown Coyotes with slightly different tart up packages. The real GT350 and the 2016-2020 versions were designed for the track, not the dragstrip. They aren’t about mega horsepower and never were originally.

Yes, I’m biased but I firmly believe as close as you can get today to a [real] GT350 from 16-20 is to get yourself a Tremec HP Dark Horse with Recaros and keep the other options to a minimum. If you don’t believe me just look at lap times, reviews and comparison videos. The reality is irrefutable.

If Shelby had started with a HP DH and simply concentrated on shedding maybe 150+ pounds, somehow ripping out the big screen for gauges, maybe a few little touches here and there I’d be the first person in line. Trust me, 500 hp is way enough anyway and probably more than most can handle. Oh, and here’s an original thought: two colors only, let’s say ummm I don’t know, maybe white/blue and black/gold? And if you don’t like the Tremec, look elsewhere.

But at least SA is trying something.

 

[robvas]

If Shelby had started with a HP DH and simply concentrated on shedding maybe 150+ pounds

Trying to find out where it could lose 150lbs

-40lbs lighter wheels
-30lbs rear set delete
-25lbs catback+ditch resonator)
-30lbs lighter front seats
-10lbs CF driveshaft

That only gets to 135 but it's a good start

 

[Upacurb]

Lots of good recent posts on here.... just my opinion but....

Ive driven TONS of Mustangs-

There is a difference between a car fully engineered to work cohesively together compared to a company that installs suspension part from this company - brakes from this company- supercharger from this company exc exc exc

At the end of the day - Shelby simply doesnt have the R&D budget compared to Ford

Based on the cars Ive driven in the past - and the fact that just about every major publication that has reviewed a recent Shelby product has also been less then impressed.....

The Dark Horse will be a better car then the GT350....for a fraction of the price....

Back in the 60s- working with Shelby was a way for Ford to fast track a performance division as remember back then- there was no Ford Performance or SVT division building cars

I think where Shelby really lost their way was when they stopped using the highest performing versions of the Mustang as a starting point (from a handling perspective)

A Super Snake used to be a modified Ford Performance product - specifically the GT500 - and they were cool - see the Code Red as an example....

My guess is someone in accounting said hey we can start with a car that costs half as much and charge the same - so lets just do that- but by doing that they removed some of the magic that Ford Performance baked into the S550 GT350/GT500/Mach 1/ and S650 Dark Horse......

 

[MCS]

Let me preface my response with; this has nothing to do with me being a Dark Horse owner LOL This is simply economics and perceived value vs realized value.

The name Shelby isn't what it was with the previous generation Mustangs. I don't dislike the new GT350 (except for that slapped on Pep Boys wing). HOWEVER, from a dollar cost average paying an extra 40-50k for the word Shelby on the back? No thanks.

Let me break down the math in CAD and convert to USD. This is my own journey so far so the numbers are accurate(ish).

DARK HORSE (700A with HP): 90k (CAD)
STEEDA LOWERING SPRINGS: $400 (CAD) installed
VELGEN RIMS / NITTO TIRES: 4k (CAD)
FORD PERFORMANCE WHIPPLE - STAGE 1: 16ish k (CAD) installed

TOTAL: $110,400.00 CAD ($76,495.61 USD)

GT350 - $109,999 USD (Delta of $33,503.39 USD.)

Now, I have a few other goodies like STOP THE HOP and H PIPE but even if you add those into the pricing matrix it's still about $33000 USD cheaper.

 

[MaddNomad]

Back in the 60s- working with Shelby was a way for Ford to fast track a performance division as remember back then- there was no Ford Performance or SVT division building cars

I think where Shelby really lost their way was when they stopped using the highest performing versions of the Mustang as a starting point (from a handling perspective)

This right here.

A piece of me feels like Carroll knew where everything was headed and decided to do those Shelby GTs and modify the Ford Performance/SVT performance cars. Basically created a little something for everyone.

Maybe they’ll kinda step back and look at things with the backlash or they might even double down

 

[9secondko]

IMO Ford ruined the party for everyone else in 2016 (even Shelby) when they brought out their new GT350. Between 2016 and 2020 this car set the standard for what a GT350 should be and was by far the most evocative of the originals from 65-66 when they first came out. Sure there were reported engine issues but hey, it’s a thinly disguised race car that you can drive on the street for goodness sake. That’s what race cars do.

The key to tapping in to the real GT350’s soul I believe is natural aspiration, simplicity and weight. When you slap a blower on it the car becomes little more than one of a multitude of similar blown Coyotes with slightly different tart up packages. The real GT350 and the 2016-2020 versions were designed for the track, not the dragstrip. They aren’t about mega horsepower and never were originally.

Yes, I’m biased but I firmly believe as close as you can get today to a [real] GT350 from 16-20 is to get yourself a Tremec HP Dark Horse with Recaros and keep the other options to a minimum. If you don’t believe me just look at lap times, reviews and comparison videos. The reality is irrefutable.

If Shelby had started with a HP DH and simply concentrated on shedding maybe 150+ pounds, somehow ripping out the big screen for gauges, maybe a few little touches here and there I’d be the first person in line. Trust me, 500 hp is way enough anyway and probably more than most can handle. Oh, and here’s an original thought: two colors only, let’s say ummm I don’t know, maybe white/blue and black/gold? And if you don’t like the Tremec, look elsewhere.

But at least SA is trying something.

Id argue Ford ruined the party by taking the foot off the gas and instead of continuing with the Shelby GT350, they took their foot off the gas, gave us a Mach 1 (at the same gt350 price) that had none of the 350 charm (though was a good Mustang) and followed up with the Dark Horse (at 10,000 dollars MORE) which also isn't a new version of the 350. Ford should have developed the 350 further and gave it the same develpment pasion that they gave the car in 2016. Instead, we got placeholders. At least with Shelby American, we have a 350 that puts all of those to absolute shame, even if it is expensive. Would it be better with bespoke engine? Sure, but that's about the only real differentiator. And Ford hasn't given many options outside of a 5.0 or 5.2. It's not like Ford got off their butts and did something wild with the Godzilla or anything - for Shelby to work off of.

Also, it makes more sense for Shelby to start with a GT. If they started with a Dark Horse, they'd strip most of the Dark Horse parts to make way for upgrades and it would be the same starting point prior to upgrading. The DH engine is the GT engine with differen tuning. A waste to pay more for what ends up as the same thing. the only car that would make a differencd would be the GT500 starting point. but with what Ford charged and what Shelby needs to make on top of it, no one woud be able to buy the thing.

Shelby doesnt have much to work with from Ford right now, so they took what they have and made a dream car out of it.

 

[Katastrophe]

Lots of good recent posts on here.... just my opinion but....

Ive driven TONS of Mustangs-

There is a difference between a car fully engineered to work cohesively together compared to a company that installs suspension part from this company - brakes from this company- supercharger from this company exc exc exc

At the end of the day - Shelby simply doesnt have the R&D budget compared to Ford

Based on the cars Ive driven in the past - and the fact that just about every major publication that has reviewed a recent Shelby product has also been less then impressed.....

The Dark Horse will be a better car then the GT350....for a fraction of the price....

Back in the 60s- working with Shelby was a way for Ford to fast track a performance division as remember back then- there was no Ford Performance or SVT division building cars

I think where Shelby really lost their way was when they stopped using the highest performing versions of the Mustang as a starting point (from a handling perspective)

A Super Snake used to be a modified Ford Performance product - specifically the GT500 - and they were cool - see the Code Red as an example....

My guess is someone in accounting said hey we can start with a car that costs half as much and charge the same - so lets just do that- but by doing that they removed some of the magic that Ford Performance baked into the S550 GT350/GT500/Mach 1/ and S650 Dark Horse......

While I agree on all points, I have a counter/solution to the R&D problem. I think this is where the perceived lack of drive and passion from the company are also made apparent...

Think of the legions of local track rats, auto-X demons and other grassroots enthusiasts out there who have had their cars on the Smoking Tire (for example) and other automobile-related channels or publications. They achieve drastic changes in vehicle dynamics for a fraction of the cost. Why? Because they put their ass in the seat and really apply knowledge on what makes a true drivers car. Shelby is a HUGE name. There is no reason why they can't fly out a driver with some REAL chops/credibility to help them set up a car that really sets it apart from what Ford has given us from factory. Think of the difference between the S550 PP1 and PP2 (before the Mach 1 entered the scene). The PP2 was a MASSIVE difference in vehicle dynamics, yet the only thing that car had over the PP1 was wheels/tires and a bit of suspension tuning. Extremely cost effective modifications that really set that car apart dynamically.

Honestly, the company (IMHO) needs some fresh blood injected with some real outside the box thinking...

 

[Upacurb]

While I agree on all points, I have a counter/solution to the R&D problem. I think this is where the perceived lack of drive and passion from the company are also made apparent...

Think of the legions of local track rats, auto-X demons and other grassroots enthusiasts out there who have had their cars on the Smoking Tire (for example) and other automobile-related channels or publications. They achieve drastic changes in vehicle dynamics for a fraction of the cost. Why? Because they put their ass in the seat and really apply knowledge on what makes a true drivers car. Shelby is a HUGE name. There is no reason why they can't fly out a driver with some REAL chops/credibility to help them set up a car that really sets it apart from what Ford has given us from factory. Think of the difference between the S550 PP1 and PP2 (before the Mach 1 entered the scene). The PP2 was a MASSIVE difference in vehicle dynamics, yet the only thing that car had over the PP1 was wheels/tires and a bit of suspension tuning. Extremely cost effective modifications that really set that car apart dynamically.

Honestly, the company (IMHO) needs some fresh blood injected with some real outside the box thinking...

1000% agree
Couldn't have said it better myself ...
Imagining like a Randy Pobst ..

 

[Katastrophe]

Let me preface my response with; this has nothing to do with me being a Dark Horse owner LOL This is simply economics and perceived value vs realized value.

The name Shelby isn't what it was with the previous generation Mustangs. I don't dislike the new GT350 (except for that slapped on Pep Boys wing). HOWEVER, from a dollar cost average paying an extra 40-50k for the word Shelby on the back? No thanks.

Let me break down the math in CAD and convert to USD. This is my own journey so far so the numbers are accurate(ish).

DARK HORSE (700A with HP): 90k (CAD)
STEEDA LOWERING SPRINGS: $400 (CAD) installed
VELGEN RIMS / NITTO TIRES: 4k (CAD)
FORD PERFORMANCE WHIPPLE - STAGE 1: 16ish k (CAD) installed

TOTAL: $110,400.00 CAD ($76,495.61 USD)

GT350 - $109,999 USD (Delta of $33,503.39 USD.)

Now, I have a few other goodies like STOP THE HOP and H PIPE but even if you add those into the pricing matrix it's still about $33000 USD cheaper.

Don't forget, they sell the take-off parts, too. So the OEM PP wheels, tires and sensors (for example) are packaged up for sale as "take-offs". The same goes for any other part they remove. They aren't put in the dumpster, that's for damn sure...

 

[Jonyxz]

Shelby American simply got greedy. Should have called this thing GREED350.

Ford didnt renovate the rights to show SA who's in charge. I can imagine Ford had to pay SA a ridiculous amount for each s550 gt350/500 they sold.

Now that SA is devaluating their own brand Ford should be able to renegotiate the badge.

...harsh truth...

 

[Upacurb]

Well I think of one REALLY positive about the new GT350......

Look at what its done for our community

S550 and S650 owners....

Dark Horse and GT owners....

Mach 1 and Dark Horse owners....

all the groups that usually argue on these forums....

We are all finally coming together as a community and can finally agree on something!!

Sponsored