Coyote Oil Viscosity in High Temp Climates ?

[metroplex]

Your car was delivered with one owner's manual.

Yes, one manual for 2024 S650. But I was talking about Ford in general with viscosity recommendations over the years sometimes even the same engine but different regions (but made in one factory). The modular V8s sold in Australia and Saudi (but made in Romeo or Windsor) were spec'd for a thicker oil than in the US market (just 1 example).

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[metroplex]

You can move, but unless you desgined and built your car's engine, don't try to pretend you know more about it than they folks who did ...

LOL same argument from 2002 when Ford switched to 5W-20. Everyone was bible thumping their owner's manual claim that Ford knew better and these newer engines had "tighter tolerances blah blah"... Then it turns out even Ford engineers were even saying to use 5W-30 in the modular V8s instead of 5W-20. Same goes for the first 3.5L EcoBoost - they were spec'd to use 5W-20 and even had the oil caps say 5W-20. Then the F-150's debuted with 3.5 EcoBoost and all of a sudden 5W-30 is the minimum weight.

 

[roadpilot]

Yes, one manual for 2024 S650. But I was talking about Ford in general with viscosity recommendations over the years sometimes even the same engine but different regions (but made in one factory). The modular V8s sold in Australia and Saudi (but made in Romeo or Windsor) were spec'd for a thicker oil than in the US market (just 1 example).

Your car was specifically built and equipped for the North American market. Part of this is for weather and environment reasons.

 

[roadpilot]

LOL same argument from 2002 when Ford switched to 5W-20. Everyone was bible thumping their owner's manual claim that Ford knew better and these newer engines had "tighter tolerances blah blah"... Then it turns out even Ford engineers were even saying to use 5W-30 in the modular V8s instead of 5W-20. Same goes for the first 3.5L EcoBoost - they were spec'd to use 5W-20 and even had the oil caps say 5W-20. Then the F-150's debuted with 3.5 EcoBoost and all of a sudden 5W-30 is the minimum weight.

No offense, but unless you work for Ford and were part of the team that designed the 5.0, I'll refrain from deferring to you over the owner's manual regarding oil viscosity. For the record, my father retired from Ford. He was an engineer who worked on designing at least one of thier engines. I'll give you one guess which one.

 

[BreadBurner]

But at least the hood is not like the ones on the previous gen. Those were not functional on the GT's.

Are you referencing the Gen 2s?

 

[metroplex]

No offense, but unless you work for Ford and were part of the team that designed the 5.0, I'll refrain from deferring to you over the owner's manual regarding oil viscosity. For the record, my father retired from Ford. He was an engineer who worked on designing at least one of thier engines. I'll give you one guess which one.

Let me just pull up this oldie...
http://mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112712

But regarding Gen 4 Coyote, owner's manual says 10qt of 5W-30 or 0W-30 and that's what I would use. But on the track, I wouldn't hesitate to run a synthetic xW-40 or xW-50 that meets API SP / ILSAC GF-6A/6B.

I am not sure why you are arguing with me because we're saying the same thing.

 

[Skye]

Where does the engine heat go and what causes it?

Not saying drop all the way to a 160 but i might be tempted to adjust cooling before i change lube.

In our examples, heat is energy which is not doing work. Heat and energy flow from areas of higher concentrations or more excited states to lower ones. Where that heat goes and how quickly is the problem concerning us. If the ambient air temperature is 50 F / 10 C, heat transfer is easier and happens faster. If we double those air temps, it's more difficult to get rid of that heat as quickly as we'd like. If we're generating a lot of heat in short order, it cannot make the transition to the outside fast enough.

A tech at a dealer can chime in, but tens of millions of factory vehicles are in operation across the deep south now. Curious what is often seen during the Summer months.

I prefer some of the solutions I listed earlier. They leave the engine operating as designed. Specific to a thermostat, IMO, it's like an on/off switch. Changing it impacts when or how long these energy transfers occur, but not the rate of transfer or necessarily the amount. I'm getting water to the radiator sooner, but its profile didn't change; it continues to transfer heat at the same rate it did before. What I really need is a bigger radiator or better and greater airflow across it. Similar with under hood heat: I need to find ways to transfer energy in greater amounts and/or quicker rates.

If I do make powertrain mods, I'd want to consult of these topics with the vendor supporting those changes. Those with heavy duty use and track time can offer their experiences.

YMMV.

 

[steveo1960]

In our examples, heat is energy which is not doing work. Heat and energy flow from areas of higher concentrations or more excited states to lower ones. Where that heat goes and how quickly is the problem concerning us. If the ambient air temperature is 50 F / 10 C, heat transfer is easier and happens faster. If we double those air temps, it's more difficult to get rid of that heat as quickly as we'd like. If we're generating a lot of heat in short order, it cannot make the transition to the outside fast enough.

A tech at a dealer can chime in, but tens of millions of factory vehicles are in operation across the deep south now. Curious what is often seen during the Summer months.

I prefer some of the solutions I listed earlier. They leave the engine operating as designed. Specific to a thermostat, IMO, it's like an on/off switch. Changing it impacts when or how long these energy transfers occur, but not the rate of transfer or necessarily the amount. I'm getting water to the radiator sooner, but its profile didn't change; it continues to transfer heat at the same rate it did before. What I really need is a bigger radiator or better and greater airflow across it. Similar with under hood heat: I need to find ways to transfer energy in greater amounts and/or quicker rates.

If I do make powertrain mods, I'd want to consult of these topics with the vendor supporting those changes. Those with heavy duty use and track time can offer their experiences.

YMMV.

Good write up.

I know in my 03 GT I had a mild tune which required a 180 degree thermostat and the tune required me to change the cooling fan low/high temperature trigger points.

With the s650 and other modern cars in general the system is an extremely complex closed loop system so unless required for an upgrade (supercharger etc) from a reputable manufacturer I would leave things the way Ford designed them.
Just my 2 shekels.

 

[Col F]

The only oil that should be used in any modern engine is that which has been specified by the vehicle manufacturer.

More than 20 years ago, I discovered that an “independent thinker” in my motor pool made the decision to use higher viscosity oil than was specified, based on the extremely hot environment they were operating in, as well as the extremely severe operating conditions.

Ford representatives, including a Ford engineer explained that using any viscosity higher than specified can fail to form an adequate oil film thickness on internal friction surfaces on their modern engines which are built with extremely tight tolerances.

 

[robvas]

No offense, but unless you work for Ford and were part of the team that designed the 5.0, I'll refrain from deferring to you over the owner's manual regarding oil viscosity. For the record, my father retired from Ford. He was an engineer who worked on designing at least one of thier engines. I'll give you one guess which one.

so everything ford does is perfect and can't be improved upon?

*takes a good look at the original 4.6 engine...*

when an engineer at any company designs something, or chooses a fluid to go in the engine...they have one tied behind their back. They have to think of costs, availability, emissions, CAFE, warranty, blah blah

it's obvious that they don't choose the oil that provides the best protection, or most horsepower, or best of anything - it's all a compromise

it's funny how people will easily upgrade brake fluid, brake pads, shocks, springs, trans fluid, etc in these cars but oil is untouchable?

 

[roadpilot]

so everything ford does is perfect and can't be improved upon?

Unless you're a mechanical engineer with experience designing engines, I'll continue to defer to them.

*takes a good look at the original 4.6 engine...*

Has nothing to do with a backyard mechanic running a different viscosity oil because it's hot outside.

when an engineer at any company designs something, or chooses a fluid to go in the engine...they have one tied behind their back. They have to think of costs, availability, emissions, CAFE, warranty, blah blah

Which company did you work for ad an engine designer again?

it's obvious that they don't choose the oil that provides the best protection, or most horsepower, or best of anything - it's all a compromise

Obvious? Says who?

it's funny how people will easily upgrade brake fluid, brake pads, shocks, springs, trans fluid, etc in these cars but oil is untouchable?

Oil is the lifeblood of your car. You can wear different shoes, change your pants, or put a hat on your head, but making the wrong decision with one of those won't have the same detrimental effect as swapping out all your blood for blood of the wrong blood type.

 

[Zig]

it's funny how people will easily upgrade brake fluid, brake pads, shocks, springs, trans fluid, etc in these cars but oil is untouchable?

I wouldn’t necessarily say untouchable but me myself usually not gonna start with that, that is unless it’s obviously wrong. Notice how they mention going thinner but not thicker in the manual, wonder why.

 

[robvas]

Which company did you work for ad an engine designer again?

Not an "engine designer" but the same place as your dad and get to hear every day when engineers complain about all the BS they have to deal with and interference they get with their decisions.

So you're saying, bar none, what Ford lists in the owners manual is the ABSOLUTE BEST oil you can put in your car?

Okay.

 

[roadpilot]

Not an "engine designer" but the same place as your dad and get to hear every day when engineers complain about all the BS they have to deal with and interference they get with their decisions.

So you're saying, bar none, what Ford lists in the owners manual is the ABSOLUTE BEST oil you can put in your car?

Okay.

So you're not an engineer. Got it.

We work with Ford engineers all day, every day, but I don't know more about the product they designed than they do.

Yes, the engineers who designed the engine know what works best in the engine they designed when the vehicle is used under conditions outlined in the manual.

Okay.

 

[robvas]

So you're not an engineer. Got it.

We work with Ford engineers all day, every day, but I don't know more about the product they designed than they do.

Yes, the engineers who designed the engine know what works best in the engine they designed when the vehicle is used under conditions outlined in the manual.

Okay.

Have you seen the test results and data from all the oils they've ran in those engines? Do you know why they chose the oil they went with?

did all the engineers unanimously agree?

and I ask again, it's okay to change other parts of the car but not the oil?

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