Ford doubles down on EV future

[Gregs24]

Well... there’s also the increased wear and tear on components. Tires and suspension wear out A LOT faster than a much lighter ICE vehicles. I had a buddy go from Raptor to f150 powerbooost to lightning ( NOT LIGHTENING) back to Raptor. It was ok for commuting at low speed, but at highway / motorway speed it’s an inefficient brick that runs out of range quickly.
It does have its share of issues unique to the lightning but it’s not simply the lack of quality, it’s really that it’s simply an inconvenient vehicle to own.



Here is one example why - and don’t take this personally, it’s not meant that way
you just don’t get it.

Your country fits -- inside of the STATE of Texas 2.8 times. How long a trip is it from lands end to John OGroats? 838 miles if the ’net is to be believed. That’s quaint.

A country as big as the just the continental US is necessarily going to be slower to adopt entirely new infrastructure; supplying fuel - whether it’s dino fuel or electricity across vast swaths of the earth is a challenge that is easy to dismiss from afar when you don’t have to worry about the scale we do.

I haven’t been to the UK in about 12(?) years and while you do have some rural areas, we have a lot.
One reason we don’t dig on EV’s in western states that are far less overcrowded than our east coast is the higher speeds, lower range of the EV at speed and greater distance between charging stations. Put weight or cargo into the equation, which we have to account for out in the middle & west of the country, range plummets even further.

I can’t speak to the effect of temperature personally, so I’ll leave that variable alone.



A US company that cannot afford to ignore the US market.



I think arrogance is unfair, it’s ignorance - @Gregs24 I’m not saying you’re stupid, dumb or anything like that but you’re preaching about topics that fit well in a European and UK market but simply does not translate to scale.
Not without government mandate, which isn’t going to happen in a somewhat free, non totalitarian country because the technology is too inconvenient and improving at a crawl; slightly faster than ICE tech is improving power, economy and efficiency wise anyway. At some point electric vehicles will improve at a pace that is causing the product to be more palatable to the consumer.

It works for you, so it HAS to work for everyone else. We all do this.

When the range gets on par with a comparable ICE vehicle, more consumers will come. When more consumers come, there will be more of an impetus to upscale the infrastructure. When we have to rationalize our choices to ourselves, it’s probably not a smart choice and right now most of the US consumer base aren’t willing to do the mental gymnastics to rationalize the EV.

Now, when they give us a 2 door Mustang, AWD, 2 second 0-60, respectable top speed, 350-ish mile range, not a huge increase in weight, good handling, there will be buyers.

China is a pretty big country and more EVs are sold there than anywhere else in the world.

Range is very similar now too. In fact infrastructure is the issue not the range per se. If you have convenient rapid charging as is the case in some countries then the individual car range is not a problem. Bladder range is probably the limiting factor!

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[Gregs24]

Exactly. The US is Fords largest market. The US consumer will mostly dictate what Ford does. Not Sweden lol

And when gas becomes really cheap really soon, US consumers won't see many advantages to EVs. EVs were already flat on sales year to year. Now imagine when gas gets cheap and EV tax credits disappear.

I wouldn't make any assumptions about oil prices. Several on here have predicted surges in oil prices and crashes in oil prices and pretty much every time they have been wrong. Of course if they were right often enough they wouldn't be posting on a car forum, they would be counting their money from the fabulous investments. Oil prices have surged recently and now fallen back a bit since the New Year.

Ford US products are rarely sold outside the US as they don't work in other countries. F150 sales for example are small outside of North America despite it being a huge seller inside NA. Oh and the US consumer isn't determining what Ford do alone - Ford sell all sorts of vehicles not available in the US in other markets so the US market is only part of their strategy and actually quite unique.

That is actually a real problem for Ford. Take BMW or Mercedes, they sell the same products globally (made all around the world too) but Ford have very different products in very different markets.

 

[Gregs24]

Yup, right up there with our American arrogance. This is definitely something in which we are number one.

Also @Gregs24 is not European, he is British.

We are still part of Europe even if we are not in the EU (as some other European countries are too)

 

[Gregs24]

Well sir; you ran around that bush (government market manipulation and policy mandates to achieve policy ends; NOT achievable without them) with a great deal of agility and alacrity!

As other's have correctly noted; we are a Constitutional Republic NOT a democracy.

That 30 years in Government? Law Enforcement, Criminal Justice, Emergency Management, High Risk Security. I WAS the police.

You are a democratic Republic. Your country is governed by democratic processes.

Your own government says so!

Government_and_You_handouts.pdf

Of course even this is politicised in the US these days!

Is the US a democracy? Yes, but it's more complicated than you thought. — We the Veterans

 

[Mustang1987]

I wouldn't make any assumptions about oil prices. Several on here have predicted surges in oil prices and crashes in oil prices and pretty much every time they have been wrong. Of course if they were right often enough they wouldn't be posting on a car forum, they would be counting their money from the fabulous investments. Oil prices have surged recently and now fallen back a bit since the New Year.

Ford US products are rarely sold outside the US as they don't work in other countries. F150 sales for example are small outside of North America despite it being a huge seller inside NA. Oh and the US consumer isn't determining what Ford do alone - Ford sell all sorts of vehicles not available in the US in other markets so the US market is only part of their strategy and actually quite unique.

That is actually a real problem for Ford. Take BMW or Mercedes, they sell the same products globally (made all around the world too) but Ford have very different products in very different markets.

I didn't say the "US consumer alone is determining". I said "mostly". And they are.

Trust me, if Ford were to choose one country to be successful in, it's the US. Period. And if there is one product they want to be successful, it's the f series trucks, which are only big in North America.

 

[Wiley Marmot]

Right back at ya!

https://www.usconstitution.net/republic-vs-democracy/

But, of course; you not living here and not being a citizen and all; I defer to your superior knowledge.

 

[roket]

i had a feeling this thread would get off track, but now its just in the tire barriers

 

[smurfslayer]

i had a feeling this thread would get off track, but now its just in the tire barriers

Dude? We are full on lawn mowing at the end of a 150mph straight away. :-)

China is a pretty big country and more EVs are sold there than anywhere else in the world.

China subsizes their EV’s. They are also quite masterful at stealing intellectual property and cloning it. China does a lot of things, it doesn’t mean the rest of the world should.

Range is very similar now too. In fact infrastructure is the issue not the range per se. If you have convenient rapid charging as is the case in some countries then the individual car range is not a problem. Bladder range is probably the limiting factor!

Definitely, put the whiskey glasses down ! Range is similar now...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
C’mon. comment with some intellectual honesty here. The range --under ideal conditions-- is close, but not equal, but the range as practically applied is not close. Fantastic in town, crummy on the motorway/interstate.

I wouldn't make any assumptions about oil prices. Several on here have predicted surges in oil prices and crashes in oil prices and pretty much every time they have been wrong. Of course if they were right often enough they wouldn't be posting on a car forum, they would be counting their money from the fabulous investments. Oil prices have surged recently and now fallen back a bit since the New Year.

Yup ! One middle east attack, and global oil prices jump like mad. But it takes months of calm for it to return to pre attack levels. Speculation.

Ford US products are rarely sold outside the US as they don't work in other countries. F150 sales for example are small outside of North America despite it being a huge seller inside NA. Oh and the US consumer isn't determining what Ford do alone - Ford sell all sorts of vehicles not available in the US in other markets so the US market is only part of their strategy and actually quite unique.

That is actually a real problem for Ford. Take BMW or Mercedes, they sell the same products globally (made all around the world too) but Ford have very different products in very different markets.

I think that’s a little unfair. The F150 would work perfectly well in the UK but for the stratospheric fuel prices. Same with mainland Europe. Ok, some your 1,000+ year old streets and alleys aren’t conducive to easy navigation, but I’ve seen plenty of the locals shoehorn their cars and delivery trucks down streets with mere inches between mirrors and walls.

One thing the Olde Country drivers definitely have on the average American driver.

But, those same diesel belching small Merc hi cubes? they’re nowhere in the US.

We are still part of Europe even if we are not in the EU (as some other European countries are too)

Wait, what? y’all BREXITed.
incidentally, I’m pretty sure we could work a deal for New York. A few million GBP would probably do it.

But we’re not paying you a pence more!

 

[Zig]

Dude? We are full on lawn mowing at the end of a 150mph straight away. :-)

i heard some of those have gone electric as well.

 

[Gregs24]

Dude? We are full on lawn mowing at the end of a 150mph straight away. :-)



China subsizes their EV’s. They are also quite masterful at stealing intellectual property and cloning it. China does a lot of things, it doesn’t mean the rest of the world should.



Definitely, put the whiskey glasses down ! Range is similar now...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
C’mon. comment with some intellectual honesty here. The range --under ideal conditions-- is close, but not equal, but the range as practically applied is not close. Fantastic in town, crummy on the motorway/interstate.



Yup ! One middle east attack, and global oil prices jump like mad. But it takes months of calm for it to return to pre attack levels. Speculation.



I think that’s a little unfair. The F150 would work perfectly well in the UK but for the stratospheric fuel prices. Same with mainland Europe. Ok, some your 1,000+ year old streets and alleys aren’t conducive to easy navigation, but I’ve seen plenty of the locals shoehorn their cars and delivery trucks down streets with mere inches between mirrors and walls.

One thing the Olde Country drivers definitely have on the average American driver.

But, those same diesel belching small Merc hi cubes? they’re nowhere in the US.


Wait, what? y’all BREXITed.
incidentally, I’m pretty sure we could work a deal for New York. A few million GBP would probably do it.

But we’re not paying you a pence more!

Europe is continent, we cant leave Europe!

F150 is of no use in the UK at all - it is WAY too big. Just doesn't fit our roads, parking spaces etc.

Range is a non issue now where the infrastructure is in place. With cars such as the Mercedes CLA showing how efficiency improves range (5.2 miles per kWh) not battery size (F150 Lightning under 2 miles per kWh). Plus who drives 800 miles per day and why? What point is there in sitting in your car all day? Yes the odd longer journey but the US average journey is little more than in Europe (20 miles or so)

I'm not defending China's policies, just pointing out that half the cars being sold there are EVs, and a HUGE number now.

 

[Gregs24]

Right back at ya!

https://www.usconstitution.net/republic-vs-democracy/

But, of course; you not living here and not being a citizen and all; I defer to your superior knowledge.

Erm - from the link you posted - pretty clear to me thanks!

In the United States, the role of democracy within the republic is crucial, embodying the very essence of the electoral process and the engagement of the citizenry in governmental decisions. Although the U.S. Constitution does not embody a pure form of democracy where laws and policies are directly decreed by citizen vote, it enshrines the democratic principle through the election of representatives who, in turn, influence legislation and governance.

You will note my quotes were from YOUR government and a US website and agree with the link you posted. I'm only going on what I have read and you have posted for me?

 

[Bikeman315]

Europe is continent, we cant leave Europe!

Well it least you understand I was kidding. Although most of the folks I talked to in London when I was there last spring weren’t too keen on Brixit.

 

[Bikeman315]

And this just came in today.

Ford Plans EREV Powertrains; Tariffs Could Force ‘Major Strategy Shifts’

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a6369...k_StateOfCharge_DailyDrive_Newsletter_Sending

 

[smurfslayer]

Range is a non issue now where the infrastructure is in place.

that’s a really big qualifier. Kind of like... Roads are safe where no other humans are present.

I see where this started...

Elected (democratically) hence representing the people. I think you will find the majority of Americans did actually vote for your current incumbent president.

You pay for your healthcare one way or another such as insurance premiums.

Your comment here belies a fundamental misunderstanding of the US presidential elections. Perhaps you knew this when you typed it, perhaps not. The popular vote is not required for a successful election as president here. While it is true that this election did result in a majority, several recent elections going back to ’92 did not have a plurality but still won the electoral college 270 vote threshold. It is not actually a direct election.
While we vote for whomever we choose, in reality we have one of 2 choices who will serve as president; either someone from the democrat party or the republican party. State electors actually cast the votes for president.

Unfortunately, our last president was a corvette owner.

We need a Mustang owner as president.

Erm - from the link you posted - pretty clear to me thanks!

In the United States, the role of democracy within the republic is crucial, embodying the very essence of the electoral process and the engagement of the citizenry in governmental decisions. Although the U.S. Constitution does not embody a pure form of democracy where laws and policies are directly decreed by citizen vote, it enshrines the democratic principle through the election of representatives who, in turn, influence legislation and governance.

You will note my quotes were from YOUR government and a US website and agree with the link you posted. I'm only going on what I have read and you have posted for me?

What the..?

When I learned The King’s English - and just to be clear who we’re talking about here, there’s only one King.

Richard Petty.

Someone along the way said ‘pay attention to the main topic’.


The link above starts with:
The United States operates as a constitutional republic, a form of government that involves representatives elected by the people, who execute their duties under the constraints of a prevailing constitution that specifies the powers and limits of government.

So, in summary
The F150 is great but British folks are scared of it.
EV’s aren’t all that, but are improving.
Lots of small countries use EV’s successfully (wonder how much US money helped out?)
Larger infrastructures will take longer to successfully adopt EV's
The Mustang ecoboost, GT and Dark Horse are not EVs
5 pages in, and we are still bickering about it.

 

[Bikeman315]

The F150 is great but British folks are scared of it.
EV’s aren’t all that, but are improving.
Lots of small countries use EV’s successfully (wonder how much US money helped out?)
Larger infrastructures will take longer to successfully adopt EV's
The Mustang ecoboost, GT and Dark Horse are not EVs
5 pages in, and we are still bickering about it.

5 Pages? This thread hasn't even started yet.

But to your points:
1. They're not affraid of it. They just cannot use a vehicle that is wider than their streets. Actually they are available in England. But the cost of a tank of petrol could cause a heart attack.
new-ford-f-150

2. Take a look at the evolution of the gas powered car and the EV. EV is way, way ahead. The gains in technology will give us the range and short charging times everyone is complaining about (at least on here). Unfortunately there is really nothing tech can do about replicating the sound of a Coyote.

3. US money has little to nothing to do with EV manufacturing or sales overseas. Each country funds their own.

4. Absolutely, urban ares are going to be a headache for a long time to come. But suburban & rural area will continue to see growth.

5. At least not yet!

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