Ford has no clue who their customers our

[9secondko]

Oh I agree Mustang is an iconic product, the current Mustang is a legacy product with the V8. I very much doubt there will be another V8 Mustang after this one (with a mid life refresh)

The mustang is not a legacy product. It’s in danger of becoming legacy if Ford doesn’t do something.


there’s nothing legacy about the v8. It’s newer than the four cylinder. And the electric motor is even older than thst. So EV tech is actually more legacy.

the v8 is the way of the future. It’s the differentiator as well. Sounds light years better and has tremendously more power potential. An ev hybrid with v8 may be in the future as well, which would be awesome. Ford could actually make a smaller v8 in thst scenario.

a great looking modern mustsng on a platform that maximizes potential, punching sbovwith a killer v8 is the way to go.

The Chevrolet Camaro was a great car. The last model was about equal to the Mustang in performance.

However, the Mustang has a huge advantage when you start modding it, it has the dual fuel system. It's hard to get the Camaro above a certain point (say 600whp but don't quote me on exact number because each tuner does things differently) and then you need to start making modifications. Much smaller aftermarket in general.

The other problem is the stock bottom end doesn't take to supercharging as well as the gen 2/3 Coyote.

I almost pulled the trigger on one at a local dealer, dark blue, base LT1 car. MSRP was like $36,500, only option was the automatic, and with discounts I think it was $32k? But changed my mind as I researched them as the first thing I would have done was stick a ProCharger on it.

On the other hand you can get pretty far with those cars with headers/camshaft/intake, unlike the Coyote engines if you stay NA.

Ford has had the better engines since the Coyote. Especially modded like you said.

meanwhile the Camaro had the better platform. Still does, even though it’s gone.

imagine that kind of platform effort toward the mustang, with a couple other cars to help amortize the cost. Couple thst with Fords engine tech and the mustang would be killing supercars for regular Joe money.

And then when you push that thing into Shelby territory… forgetaboutit.

a big factor in Fords purposes decline of the mustang is destroying the customers ability to modify by locking the ECU. Modding mustangs is a huge reason why it’s been so incredibly popular.

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[Gregs24]

Plus it is a fact that Ford has been jacking up ICE prices to make up for their 5 billion a year EV loss.
I always said if you hate Ford (or any manufacturer) just buy one of their EV‘s and they will lose 30-50k depending on model.

You do understand how R&D costs work? All companies developing any product have significant costs up front which are then recouped on subsequent sales of the product.

As an example if you are bringing a new car to the market there will be millions or billions spent on design, platform design, legal compliance (globally in many different markets) production line setup, crash testing and marketing before you sell a single car. Those costs have to be recouped somewhere either on the car or on other vehicles in your range if you are fortunate to have them. For startup car makers of which there have been a few of late that process is daunting and can fail catastrophically. So OF COURSE Ford are using current model sales to help cover the costs of new product development, that is how it works.

They don't lose 30k to 50k on each EV sold because the development costs are amortised over time and current sales. Not buying the EV doesn't save Ford the money (it reduces the loss bit by bit) because the money has already been spent before the car ever came to market.

 

[Gregs24]

The mustang is not a legacy product. It’s in danger of becoming legacy if Ford doesn’t do something.


there’s nothing legacy about the v8. It’s newer than the four cylinder. And the electric motor is even older than thst. So EV tech is actually more legacy.

the v8 is the way of the future. It’s the differentiator as well. Sounds light years better and has tremendously more power potential. An ev hybrid with v8 may be in the future as well, which would be awesome. Ford could actually make a smaller v8 in thst scenario.

a great looking modern mustsng on a platform that maximizes potential, punching sbovwith a killer v8 is the way to go.


Ford has had the better engines since the Coyote. Especially modded like you said.

meanwhile the Camaro had the better platform. Still does, even though it’s gone.

imagine that kind of platform effort toward the mustang, with a couple other cars to help amortize the cost. Couple thst with Fords engine tech and the mustang would be killing supercars for regular Joe money.

And then when you push that thing into Shelby territory… forgetaboutit.

a big factor in Fords purposes decline of the mustang is destroying the customers ability to modify by locking the ECU. Modding mustangs is a huge reason why it’s been so incredibly popular.

The V8 is legacy globally. It doesn't matter how new the engine is the world is moving away from ICE very quickly. The 'legacy' bit doesn't mean old, it does mean a product / technology that is being replaced. Ford will not and should not throw money at the current Mustang model.

The next Mustang will be electric, the current 'legacy' one will carry on, maybe even alongside for a while in the US market.

Hybrid V8 (mild hybrid) may help the old car cling on for a while longer but even Ferrari have gone to 6 cylinders now with electric motors. True hybrids or PHEV's just don't need a V8, they would be far too powerful and still have poor economy. You would be drifting into 800PS + and too heavy.

 

[Germansheperd]

You do understand how R&D costs work? All companies developing any product have significant costs up front which are then recouped on subsequent sales of the product.

As an example if you are bringing a new car to the market there will be millions or billions spent on design, platform design, legal compliance (globally in many different markets) production line setup, crash testing and marketing before you sell a single car. Those costs have to be recouped somewhere either on the car or on other vehicles in your range if you are fortunate to have them. For startup car makers of which there have been a few of late that process is daunting and can fail catastrophically. So OF COURSE Ford are using current model sales to help cover the costs of new product development, that is how it works.

They don't lose 30k to 50k on each EV sold because the development costs are amortised over time and current sales. Not buying the EV doesn't save Ford the money (it reduces the loss bit by bit) because the money has already been spent before the car ever came to market.

You can play a shell game any way you’d like. The fact of the matter is Ford is losing about 5 billion a year on their EV side. Depending on model it equates to 30-50k for each one sold.
2 weeks ago I replaced my wife’s totaled Wrangler with a 2024 Edge I got $7,250 off of Z-plan or a total of $10,400 off of MSRP. I am done with financing Ford’s losses nor am I going to pay ridiculous money for nothing special like a 75k DH that can’t beat a 3 year old 55k Mach 1.

 

[kagemusha2662]

I think that they(FORD) have done more then nothing in the last 20 years, just look at the chassis IRS, MagneRide, brakes and other safety features. I am not sure you need re-design iconic vehicles every few years as long as you can properly target the product to the next generation.

I think this is what gets at me too about this generation. The updates on the s650 are so minimal compared to what Chevy did not just with the Corvette, but the Camaro from 5th gen to 6th gen. Corvette in one generation went from American sports car into supercar/hyper car territory, all with an affordable price. When chevy was offering the camaro, the 5th gen zeta to 6th gen alpha chassis was a considerable jump (as well as bringing in the LT1 from the corvette), while still being priced effectively. Most car youtubers and magazines I've seen even still recommend the 6th gen camaro over the s650 mustang. It's a puzzling move by Ford given that the v8's in general are declining and instead of doing something special/new being the only game in town; they decide to just phone it in and kind of let the v8 muscle car die eventually. I give it another 4-5 years max before this gen is axed and maybe even the Mustang altogether

 

[robvas]

Yes I’m aware. Don’t care so much. I’m not wealthy but 20 grand ain’t gonna keep groceries off the table.

Let the record reflect that I bought a new ‘22 Mach 1 and two new ‘23 Mach 1s. I traded one of my ‘23s toward my DH and still have the other. So I’m pretty familiar with the Mach 1.

So what's different about it? What makes it feel like it's worth 20k more?

They are very similar components, almost identical performance.

 

[9secondko]

The V8 is legacyIt doesn't matter how new the engine is the world is moving away from ICE very quickly. The 'legacy' bit doesn't mean old, it does mean a product / technology that is being replaced. Ford will not and should not throw money at the current Mustang model.

The next Mustang will be electric, the current 'legacy' one will carry on, maybe even alongside for a while in the US market.

Hybrid V8 (mild hybrid) may help the old car cling on for a while longer but even Ferrari have gone to 6 cylinders now with electric motors. True hybrids or PHEV's just don't need a V8, they would be far too powerful and still have poor economy. You would be drifting into 800PS + and too heavy.

no it’s not. The v8 itself is the perfect solution for large vehicles and performance vehicles. It’s the perfect solution. Anything else uses older tech combined with forced induction to match it. The problem is that the v8 far surpasses those when forced induction is added. Then there is the electric side. Much older legacy tech. Also more an environmental and infrastructure concern.

there is nothing legacy about the v8. NASA derived spray bore lining, dual overhead cam with variable timing, forged internals, etc. its a high tech modern setup.

More so than any other solution.

 

[Cucurú]

This a very astute comment. You do realize Jim Farley is on Harley Davidsons board of directors right?

All I know is all us lowly Harley riders do not like their uppity Eurotrash CEO. He thinks we're all Hoi Poloi. Is Jim Farley an up and up guy? I'd like to know.

 

[Germansheperd]

All I know is all us lowly Harley riders do not like their uppity Eurotrash CEO. He thinks we're all Hoi Poloi. Is Jim Farley an up and up guy? I'd like to know.

From what you know now and what you have seen you make your own judgment call. Doesn’t seem much different than sneaker boy to me.

 

[Cucurú]

Can you please expand on the Harley-Davidson thought?

It's highly political. Has to do with how the European CEO looks down on us scumbag lowly Harley riders. Yet it was us scum buckets who saved their bacon from going out of business. If They'd have went out of Business America would not have Indian or other brands of American motorcycles. Plus all the DEI the company follows. In the 90s people my age and older, who hated Harleys for being basically junk, started purchasing their bikes. Now most of these people are aging in their late 60s to early 80s have motorcycles in their garages they no longer use. Now H-D uses DEI to find another class of people who they believe will purchase these bikes. As I said before. People are practically selling their new bikes at a great loss to get Evolution motored bikes from the 90s. I gave mine to my daughter who had it rebuilt with a stroker 89 inch kit. Thing runs like a raped ape.

 

[Gregs24]

no it’s not. The v8 itself is the perfect solution for large vehicles and performance vehicles. It’s the perfect solution. Anything else uses older tech combined with forced induction to match it. The problem is that the v8 far surpasses those when forced induction is added. Then there is the electric side. Much older legacy tech. Also more an environmental and infrastructure concern.

there is nothing legacy about the v8. NASA derived spray bore lining, dual overhead cam with variable timing, forged internals, etc. its a high tech modern setup.

More so than any other solution.

I repeat - the V8 is a fabulous modern engine. ICE engines are legacy!

Fine, electric motors are not new but EV's are.

V8 hasn't been used much outside the US ever, and certainly isn't now.

 

[kagemusha2662]

I repeat - the V8 is a fabulous modern engine. ICE engines are legacy!

Fine, electric motors are not new but EV's are.

V8 hasn't been used much outside the US ever, and certainly isn't now.

BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Lexus are all outside the US and offer V8s in multiple cars in their lineups.

 

[Gregs24]

You can play a shell game any way you’d like. The fact of the matter is Ford is losing about 5 billion a year on their EV side. Depending on model it equates to 30-50k for each one sold.
2 weeks ago I replaced my wife’s totaled Wrangler with a 2024 Edge I got $7,250 off of Z-plan or a total of $10,400 off of MSRP. I am done with financing Ford’s losses nor am I going to pay ridiculous money for nothing special like a 75k DH that can’t beat a 3 year old 55k Mach 1.

You do know other carmakers are doing the same

 

[Gregs24]

BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Lexus are all outside the US and offer V8s in multiple cars in their lineups.

Did.

Pretty much all gone now.

No Audi V8 (new RS models are EV or hybrid 6), Mercedes dropping V8 for hybrid 6 except for S class, Lexus dropping all V8's BMW hardly any V8 now.

Literally a handful left.

 

[kagemusha2662]

Did.

Pretty much all gone now.

No Audi V8 (new RS models are EV or hybrid 6), Mercedes dropping V8 for hybrid 6 except for S class, Lexus dropping all V8's BMW hardly any V8 now.

Literally a handful left.

This is not true?
Audi: https://media.audiusa.com/releases/612, multiple 8 cylinder cars here
Mercedes: AMG GT coupe
Lexus: LC500 and IC500 still are in the lineup
BMW: 6 cars with a v8
Sure there are not a lot, but there are still plenty of cars with a v8 engine around

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