How do we save the mustang?

[Bikeman315]

You’ve piqued my interest, what was so special about 1987?

https://www.motortrend.com/vehicle-genres/what-if-ford-probe-actually-replaced-mustang/

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[DevilDog]

You’ve piqued my interest, what was so special about 1987?

I don't have a clue either. I hadn't been born yet.

 

[Zig]

https://www.motortrend.com/vehicle-genres/what-if-ford-probe-actually-replaced-mustang/

1987 Ford Mustang: Ultimate In-Depth Guide

“This next-generation Mustang was moving to a new front-wheel drive Mazda platform. However when rumors started to surface in 1987 that Ford was doing away with the traditional rear wheel drive V8 powered Mustang for a front wheel drive Japanese inspired compact sports hatchback Mustang enthusiasts revolted in a massive way. The Mustang faithful were furious and inundated Ford with letters (about 30,000 letters from what we were told).

Ford relented and…”
https://www.mustangspecs.com/1987-ford-mustang/

 

[smurfslayer]

https://www.motortrend.com/vehicle-genres/what-if-ford-probe-actually-replaced-mustang/

This was definitely written with chemical assistance:

"
1996: Performance Goes Big
Encouraged by the response to the Probe, and wary of ceding ground to the rumored performance versions of the Camry and Accord on their way from Japan, Ford introduces a jellybean-looking Taurus replacement. The SHO model carries over, but its new Yamaha V-8 is paired with an all-wheel-drive system that features ultra-exotic active torque management and limited four-wheel steering."



In 1996. on a non-exotic.

 

[9secondko]

The whole "WHAT IF" idea in that Probe piece is hilarious. The probe was a cool car for its time, but no Mustang replacement. The whole "what if" the probe was the #2 American Muscle car, etc. reads like a V8 hater's dream. How quickly that author forgets that the Probe itself wsn't much to write home about in terms of sales, having had its best sales number in 1989, where the mustang outsold it by around 70,000 plus. Then it steadily declined until finally selling only 17,000 units in 1997, compared to the Mustang's 116,000. So... good thing history is what it is and we dont' need any "alternate history," eh?

 

[9secondko]

You’ve piqued my interest, what was so special about 1987?

Guess he wasn't referring to the 170k sales numbers, but the '86 and 88 numbers were better, over 200k.

Dang, now i want a Fox GT.

 

[Cucurú]

a lot of creative mental acrobatics to twist things into that. Please save your political smears for elsewhere. Let’s keep the subject on mustang thanks. This thread has a lot of good discussion and we don’t need it ruined for everyone by getting it locked.

I agree. Since I doubt there's any Prius drivers here. They can keep their politics

 

[Gregs24]

The whole "WHAT IF" idea in that Probe piece is hilarious. The probe was a cool car for its time, but no Mustang replacement. The whole "what if" the probe was the #2 American Muscle car, etc. reads like a V8 hater's dream. How quickly that author forgets that the Probe itself wsn't much to write home about in terms of sales, having had its best sales number in 1989, where the mustang outsold it by around 70,000 plus. Then it steadily declined until finally selling only 17,000 units in 1997, compared to the Mustang's 116,000. So... good thing history is what it is and we dont' need any "alternate history," eh?

You have to remember the late 70's and 80's Mustangs were pretty dire. They lost the essence of the original and it wasn't until the S197 that the Mustang found it's way again. All well documented that John Coletti saved the Mustang by preventing the Probe becoming the Mustang

 

[9secondko]

You have to remember the late 70's and 80's Mustangs were pretty dire. They lost the essence of the original and it wasn't until the S197 that the Mustang found it's way again. All well documented that John Coletti saved the Mustang by preventing the Probe becoming the Mustang

the s197 hit the nostalgia market in perfect timing. The challenger and Camaro saw that, followed suit, and benefitted as well.
However, for about 5 years, the s197 was woefully underpowered, didn’t handle well, and was basivally carried by being a homage to the 1960s, minus the performance. But really, tje s197 had one three good years at the beginning. It then preceded to sell less than the sn95. Which sold quite well. The 1986-1990 Fox bodies were a great car and enjoyed healthy sales as well. Much More so than s197. So the s197 was nice. But It is down the line aftee the original, Fox, and sn95 - especially the new edge.

 

[smurfslayer]

You have to remember the late 70's and 80's Mustangs were pretty dire. They lost the essence of the original and it wasn't until the S197 that the Mustang found it's way again. All well documented that John Coletti saved the Mustang by preventing the Probe becoming the Mustang

late ’70’s through about ’83. ’85 was the last carb’d model here and wasn’t hatefully slow. Solid low 14 maybe some high 13’s with only a few bucks in.
’86 took a step back, but the ’87 LX 302 5 speed could do a high 13 second quarter mile at MIR with nothing but a sticky set of tires - not slicks, just decent tires.

The 87’s would do around 13.2 with 3.73 gears. Even though it was basically a Ford Fairmont with a V8 and good lines, not bad. It was not a bad buy either. The s197 was better, sure, but the late 80’s - early 90’s Fox body Mustangs were up to the task of performing again. In the context of the times, mid 13’s at an honest drag strip was good.

 

[Rocket Man]

and how can anyone complain with what we've got now.
Low 12's to high 11's stock. Worth the price anyday, but it still seems like a lot (the price)

 

[Bikeman315]

and how can anyone complain with what we've got now.
Low 12's to high 11's stock. Worth the price anyday, but it still seems like a lot (the price)

Only if you are looking back 5, 10, 15, or 20 years. But that’s not realistic. Comparisons to the current market is all that counts. And on that count the Mustang is still a relative bargain.

 

[Rocket Man]

agreed

 

[Stonehauler]

How do you save the mustang?

Pricing. Unfortunately, Government has mandated lots of stuff saying "it will save money" and maybe it does, but when cars get very expensive, it starts to price people out of the market. Mustangs are also "summer/good day cars" in many markets, meaning the people that own them own a second car they use for their daily driver. That's okay when the average person can afford two cars for a single driver, but things have gotten MUCH tighter on the American budget. Asking someone to pay 50-60k for a "fun" car isn't going to be as easy an ask as it was 10-20 years ago. Plus, kids are saddled with lots of debt these days from college (many without doing things like doing a cost benefit analysis of their chosen major). This means people have debt that is very difficult to repay, plus housing, plus groceries (my grocery bill has easily doubled for the same food since 2020), and it's not due to kids

Environmental awareness - "cruising", going for a drive, taking a ride, etc., has gone away. Not many people are driving for fun anymore. Between congestion, traffic cameras, costs, and increased environmental awareness, the new generations don't like driving and the older generations just are not doing it as much. As a result, fewer people, at least as a percentage, are looking for "fun" cars, at least as a new vehicle

Weight - Like pricing, safety systems come at a weight cost, or the above pricing cost if engineered to be lighter. cars that used to be 3000 lbs would not be coming in at 4000 or even 4500 lbs. This means you need more power to have the same thrill

Relative fun gap - while related to environmental awareness, improved suspension, drivetrains, and frames mean that even SUVs can offer near pony-car like performance. I've even seen some people here suggest that the V-8 offered in the current mustang not be offered in the potential "Mach 4", with the 3.5 ecoboost. So how do you get people to buy a small car that's only good for 1-2 people as "fun" when they can buy a SUV that can haul 4, is almost as fast, can handle almost as well, and "runs out of speed limit" very quickly. Oh, and having that SUV as a single vehicle means you can take you and a friend, or you and your family to places you might want to see, or can now afford to visit since you only have one vehicle to pay for/insure.

SO...how do you save the mustang.

Focus on key areas
price - get the cost of an entry level mustang down. While it may lose the punchiness of acceleration, it must retain good handling (which does not mean a punishing ride). Ideally, it need to drop 2k to under 30k.. Psychologically, 29k is a much better starting number for first time new car buyers than 31k. The convertible should drop 21 bucks to 29k, and if possible try to get the GT to 39,999 as well. Dark Horse is overpriced and should be 54k and 59k for DH prem. Again, starting numbers. Maybe you boost option prices, but starting numbers are important.

Quality - Ford said they wanted to compete with the 3 series. Well, they are not close in quality, but they are in price. Quality MUST go up. creeks, rattles, groans, must not happen, gaps should be perfect.

Usability - the Mustang MUST have a sibling (name unimportant) that resides on the same platform but can have 4 doors and hold more than 2 adults/teens. This is important as young drivers turn into family drivers and want a sedan (SUVs are covered already). You want them keeping the connection to the mustang so they switch back to the mustang when they become empty nesters. The mustang must also stop "doing what mustangs do" which is crash. AWD is one of the better ways to accomplish this (yes, I know, this adds cost and weight which I railed against above), but it's either that or nanny systems that you won't be able to turn off. Personally, AWD will be a better performance gain as you can usually accelerate faster

Performance - you must have a larger gap between your SUV performance and your Mustang performance. This means making the Mustang better, not SUVs worse.

 

[Bikeman315]

How do you save the mustang?

Pricing. Unfortunately, Government has mandated lots of stuff saying "it will save money" and maybe it does, but when cars get very expensive, it starts to price people out of the market. Mustangs are also "summer/good day cars" in many markets, meaning the people that own them own a second car they use for their daily driver. That's okay when the average person can afford two cars for a single driver, but things have gotten MUCH tighter on the American budget. Asking someone to pay 50-60k for a "fun" car isn't going to be as easy an ask as it was 10-20 years ago. Plus, kids are saddled with lots of debt these days from college (many without doing things like doing a cost benefit analysis of their chosen major). This means people have debt that is very difficult to repay, plus housing, plus groceries (my grocery bill has easily doubled for the same food since 2020), and it's not due to kids

Environmental awareness - "cruising", going for a drive, taking a ride, etc., has gone away. Not many people are driving for fun anymore. Between congestion, traffic cameras, costs, and increased environmental awareness, the new generations don't like driving and the older generations just are not doing it as much. As a result, fewer people, at least as a percentage, are looking for "fun" cars, at least as a new vehicle

Weight - Like pricing, safety systems come at a weight cost, or the above pricing cost if engineered to be lighter. cars that used to be 3000 lbs would not be coming in at 4000 or even 4500 lbs. This means you need more power to have the same thrill

Relative fun gap - while related to environmental awareness, improved suspension, drivetrains, and frames mean that even SUVs can offer near pony-car like performance. I've even seen some people here suggest that the V-8 offered in the current mustang not be offered in the potential "Mach 4", with the 3.5 ecoboost. So how do you get people to buy a small car that's only good for 1-2 people as "fun" when they can buy a SUV that can haul 4, is almost as fast, can handle almost as well, and "runs out of speed limit" very quickly. Oh, and having that SUV as a single vehicle means you can take you and a friend, or you and your family to places you might want to see, or can now afford to visit since you only have one vehicle to pay for/insure.

SO...how do you save the mustang.

Focus on key areas
price - get the cost of an entry level mustang down. While it may lose the punchiness of acceleration, it must retain good handling (which does not mean a punishing ride). Ideally, it need to drop 2k to under 30k.. Psychologically, 29k is a much better starting number for first time new car buyers than 31k. The convertible should drop 21 bucks to 29k, and if possible try to get the GT to 39,999 as well. Dark Horse is overpriced and should be 54k and 59k for DH prem. Again, starting numbers. Maybe you boost option prices, but starting numbers are important.

Quality - Ford said they wanted to compete with the 3 series. Well, they are not close in quality, but they are in price. Quality MUST go up. creeks, rattles, groans, must not happen, gaps should be perfect.

Usability - the Mustang MUST have a sibling (name unimportant) that resides on the same platform but can have 4 doors and hold more than 2 adults/teens. This is important as young drivers turn into family drivers and want a sedan (SUVs are covered already). You want them keeping the connection to the mustang so they switch back to the mustang when they become empty nesters. The mustang must also stop "doing what mustangs do" which is crash. AWD is one of the better ways to accomplish this (yes, I know, this adds cost and weight which I railed against above), but it's either that or nanny systems that you won't be able to turn off. Personally, AWD will be a better performance gain as you can usually accelerate faster

Performance - you must have a larger gap between your SUV performance and your Mustang performance. This means making the Mustang better, not SUVs worse.

Very nice write up but honestly just rehashing the same talking points mentioned numerous times already.

Price - At this point Ford is all about profit so just forget about price reductions. It’s just not going to happen.

Quality - In the nine year production run of the S550 quality never really improved much. Flat Rock gives you what you’ve got. The S650 from most accounts is not much better. Nothing is going to change.

Usability - Adding additional models might save the Mustang brand name but not our V8 powered rear wheel drive car. And that’s what we want. All wheel drive might be a nice option but so would a hybrid. But neither would save “our” Mustang.

Performance - So you want a better built, cheaper, 500+ HP car? Hell, I’m with you there!!

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