What will it take to save the V8 Mustang?

[Ruin]

FWIW:

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...harging-rates-go-through-the-roof-188884.html

This is the obvious and inevitable result when a majority of electricity in the U.S. is still generated from fossil fuel (natural gas). Gas prices go up, it's used to generate electricity, so electricity prices go up.

And the price of fossil fuels are going up for one reason only. We need price-gouging regulation desperately. There are plans for an EV power supply grids that *should* include price controls since it’s a government plan, but we’ll see, I’m not hopeful. Also a more diversified mix of green energy. I hope folks (at large, not this website specifically) bemoaning the environmental impact of EVs are also pushing for true green energy since green energy powered EVs are definitely among the cleanest. Time will tell on that.

Adding as an aside:
EVs aren’t about the cost comparison for the consumer (even though most who charge at home/work during the right times will pay a fraction of what these speed-chargers cost), but the overall benefit for everyone.

We’re on the cutting edge of paradigm changing technology and that will always come with some growing pains. EVs are the future and no matter how much teeth gnashing we do here, that isn’t changing. We just have to be ready, as enthusiasts, for that change.

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[llinthicum1]

EV's are here, but they aren't mainstream yet. Current buyers are people who want the latest and greatest technology, e.g. those that trade their iPhones every year. To reach the mass consumers, EVs will have to overcome a lot of hurdles. Range, long charging times, lack of infrastructure, i.e. lack of and location of charging stations. Also, initial cost of EVs are too high for most consumers and the cost of insurance is much higher. New battery technology will fix some of these issues. In fact new battery technology will probably make current battery packs obsolete. Battery manufactures are trying to find materials that are less costly and more available while at same time increasing energy density. Cost will eventually come down; e.g. plasma tvs were $10,000 when they first came out. What I don't know is the time frame. I see dates like 2035 as artificial and subject to change. A lot will depend on who is in the White House and who is running Congress. More importantly, it will be consumer acceptance.

 

[Hack]

Can we get back on topic? Some of us like V8 engines and I don't think this thread was started as a "benefits of EV" thread.

People can go on the Mach E forums and talk about how great their EVs are.

 

[shogun32]

We need price-gouging regulation desperately. There are plans for an EV power supply grids that *should* include price controls since it’s a government plan

the oil price is not a 'take it or leave it' at the oil majors or the refineries. you haven't been paying attention to the economic and dare I say DELIBERATE gov't policies that are driving the cost of gasoline and diesel up.

price controls NEVER work. they only produce scarcity - ie oh sure, the price is set to an artificial "feel good" level for the economically ignorant peons, there just isn't any product on the shelves to actually buy.

The solution to high prices is high prices. Do you even know WHY diesel is so expensive and on a trajectory for even higher? It ain't Mr. Burns/Exxon sitting in his chair smoking a cigar with tented fingers marveling at his evil masterplan working...

 

[Bikeman315]

Can we get back on topic? Some of us like V8 engines and I don't think this thread was started as a "benefits of EV" thread.

People can go on the Mach E forums and talk about how great their EVs are.

Agreed. The reality is that there is no saving the V8 or any ICE engine. It’s just a matter of when. 5 years, 10 years, who knows. I’m going to enjoy my Coyote today and for many years to come. I’m done worrying about anything I have no control over.

 

[w3rkn]

And the price of fossil fuels are going up for one reason only. We need price-gouging regulation desperately. There are plans for an EV power supply grids that *should* include price controls since it’s a government plan, but we’ll see, I’m not hopeful. Also a more diversified mix of green energy. I hope folks (at large, not this website specifically) bemoaning the environmental impact of EVs are also pushing for true green energy since green energy powered EVs are definitely among the cleanest. Time will tell on that.

Adding as an aside:
EVs aren’t about the cost comparison for the consumer (even though most who charge at home/work during the right times will pay a fraction of what these speed-chargers cost), but the overall benefit for everyone.

We’re on the cutting edge of paradigm changing technology and that will always come with some growing pains. EVs are the future and no matter how much teeth gnashing we do here, that isn’t changing. We just have to be ready, as enthusiasts, for that change.

Electric vehicles work in congested areas, they do not (currently) work for 80% of Americans. Because waiting in traffic is super efficient in EV's and People who live in congested areas travel distance is actual in on-road time, not actual miles... different than 80% of Americans who travel (on average) 30+ miles to work...

Simple math: Gas pumps usually have 8-12 pumps and it only takes 5m to fill up. How many "E-pumps" do gas stations need to support EV that take 45M+ to fill up...? You would need over 50+ DC stations on a Corner using much more space than just 2 "Gas stations", to service the same amount of EVs, for a local community.



When the infrastructure is built by our Government/Capitalists', then it will be prudent for People to buy them. Currently, Our grid can NOT handle Electric Vehicles...

Trump/Elon 2024

 

[Ruin]

Simple math: Gas pumps usually have 8-12 pumps and it only takes 5m to fill up. How many "E-pumps" do gas stations need to support EV that take 45M+ to fill up...? You would need over 50+ DC stations on a Corner using much more space than just 2 "Gas stations", to service the same amount of EVs, for a local community.

I prefer to leave out the boring politics personally and I think the admin team prefers the same. So I’m only going to talk about what we can see happening now and the moves industry/government are taking to move to an EV future.

This quote, however, is a fundamental misunderstanding of how EVs are/will be used by the average consumer. We’ll be charging at home and at work the majority of the time, which reduces the demand for charging stations as infrastructure. We will, as a society, find the “arrangement” that works best to keep costs and consumption low while keeping convenience high. Americans love convenience above all else, that won’t change here.

No amount of naysaying changes the fact the EVs are coming, like it or not. The industry is moving that way. Governments are moving that way. ICE will die - eventually. Maybe in 30-40 years in the US. Probably 15-20 in Europe. But EV is the future and we can adjust or simply complain.

It’s a silly thing to argue about honestly. It’s happening. And a bunch of gasoline super-users hate it, but that’s what happens when paradigms shift I suppose.

 

[LSchicago]

Electric vehicles work in congested areas, they do not (currently) work for 80% of Americans. Because waiting in traffic is super efficient in EV's and People who live in congested areas travel distance is actual in on-road time, not actual miles... different than 80% of Americans who travel (on average) 30+ miles to work...

Simple math: Gas pumps usually have 8-12 pumps and it only takes 5m to fill up. How many "E-pumps" do gas stations need to support EV that take 45M+ to fill up...? You would need over 50+ DC stations on a Corner using much more space than just 2 "Gas stations", to service the same amount of EVs, for a local community.



When the infrastructure is built by our Government/Capitalists', then it will be prudent for People to buy them. Currently, Our grid can NOT handle Electric Vehicles...

Trump/Elon 2024

Most people will charge at home 90% of the time. Chargers at stations will be more for travelers or apartment dwellers who don't have chargers at home or work. Currently almost no one fills up ICE vehicles at home. EV's will only increase by double each year. Currently that's about 2 percent of vehicles sold. It will take a decade or more to ramp up sales. During that time there will be grid improvements. Many EV buyers install Solar so their car and house needs are covered. I don't feel I'd consider an EV for another 10 years.

 

[Thomas]

Interesting thread here. Complex topics.

I would be very careful about using the “studies have shown” argument. Or anything on the first 5ish pages of a search engine result. Those results are curated to provide a specific viewpoint. It’s not conspiracy, it’s how the algorithms work.

Many “studies” are nothing more than opinion pieces with gussied up charts and data created by institutions, or “activist bloggers” with a particular political or financial interest. They rely on most people not understanding the scientific fundaments/process and/or field of study. Or, simply not caring and just wanting to appear like part of the group think. People are way too trusting these days, and the increased complexity of technology and access to data is making for a potent combo.

Recognize the massive conflicts of interest financially in media of any type, and that most media outlets arepurely reactive in their daily programming; they need sensationalismto survive and make money in the digital world and this affects their veracity significantly.

All that being said.

I like EVs at a high level but they are not economical yet. Range and longevity are still concerns. Battery tech is rapidly advancing, here in WA Sila Batteries is working on solving that problem with some pretty insane stuff. Toyota too. But, structural battery packs mean your EV is essentially disposable at the moment. Not green at all. I would never buy an EV based on an “eco” argument. There isn’t one. CO2 concentrations were far higher in the Jurassic/Triassic. Temps were higher.

The best argument for EVs IMVHO is that we are running into an energy crisis. Our energy consumption as a world has dramatically increased with industrialization and the projected growth is significant. Moving auto demand off oil, and shifting it to the grid which can be built out mitigates it. Renewables are not going to cut it. I expect to see both oil and coal consumption go up, and hopefully…..nuclear.

Will V8s die? Maybe, hopefully not. Maybe constrained to “recreational use only”. Im keeping my 500 either way. A lot can change that could delay things…or politics swings more right than left….who the heck knows.

Also, the fires out west over here are huge because of poor forestry management practices and people with o idea what they are doing taking up hiking en-mass and doing stupid stuff. Our forest rangers have been working overtime rescuing people, stopping fires that should never have been lit….it’s largely a lack of education. Not just dry summers. It’s not all the doom and gloom it’s chalked up to be

 

[CANTWN4LSN]

The only way to save the V8 is to elect an administration that will decouple the U.S. from the corporate globalist trend of the WEF and Great Reset. The massive push for environmentalism to halt climate change is more about training people to accept government mandates, accepting regulations for their own good, and restrictions on personal freedoms including eventually population control (the ultimate goal to decrease human impact on the environment). Some responses on this thread indicate how successful that propaganda effort by the elite class has already been.

Nothing against EVs. Establish U.S. autonomy, limit government disturbance of the marketplace, and let the consumer decide what best fits their needs.

 

[DeluxeStang]

The only way to save the V8 is to elect an administration that will decouple the U.S. from the corporate globalist trend of the WEF and Great Reset. The massive push for environmentalism to halt climate change is more about training people to accept government mandates, accepting regulations for their own good, and restrictions on personal freedoms including eventually population control (the ultimate goal to decrease human impact on the environment). Some responses on this thread indicate how successful that propaganda effort by the elite class has already been.

Nothing against EVs. Establish U.S. autonomy, limit government disturbance of the marketplace, and let the consumer decide what best fits their needs.

I agree with some of your points. especially in your conclusion. But a lot of that reads like the conspiracy theories to end all conspiracy theories. I can assure you that yes, fewer people are having kids, but that's the direction things have just been going the last decade or so. The high costs or parenting, greater emphasis on developing a career over a family, and just the fact that parenting is no longer the badge of honor it used to be. Nothing wrong with someone deciding not to have kids, we shouldn't encourage people who don't want families to have them. Also, yes, personal freedoms are important, but the pandemic proved that sometimes regulations have to be put it place, because some people can't be trusted to do the right thing on their own lol. The issue is people only care about their freedoms, they don't give a rats ass if the push to maximize their own freedoms deprives someone else of theirs. For instance, let's say there's someone who works as a cashier at a store, who cares for an elderly and/or sick family member. If a ton of people with covid start coming into the store without masks, well now that cashier is having their own freedoms infringed upon. They either have to give up the freedom to work wherever they want, or they have to give up the freedom to protect the health of their family member. There's a way to enjoy one's freedoms without being a complete ass.

 

[Stonehauler]

Let's face it, the V8 is going to die eventually. EVs are the future. There is no real way around it. There are things that need to happen, but eventually ICEs are going to go away, even on vehicles like ATVs and motorcycles, and on outdoor equipment like home lawn tractors, mowers, trimmers, etc.
Large lawn and garden tractors will probably remain ICE for a bit, and Farm implements will probably remain ICE for a long time. Eventually though, even those massive machines will probably switch to electric.

The main issues we have now are energy density. Batteries just don't have the energy density of fossil fuels. Eventually though, they will find something that gets it a whole lot closer. Once that happens, expect the change over to be a lot more rapid.

My point though, is that ICE is dead long term. If we want performance vehicles in the future, we need to be engaging with companies today and letting them know. If we keep on the ICE bandwagon, we are going to miss a critical time in forming the future of EVs. Change is scary, but if we leave ourselves out of the conversation, I can guarantee you that we will miss out of our chance to shape the future of vehicles.

 

[Bikeman315]

Here is our future, like it or not. The fat lady has started to warm up.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a... -- High Minus Dormant and 90 Day Non Openers

 

[Hack]

I could see some car companies going out of business. Yes, there are people who will buy the modern day Pintos and Chevettes they are getting ready to churn out, but I think quite a few people are going to balk.

Maybe I can't control whether Mercedes or any other company continues to build V8s. However, I can refuse to buy cars I don't like. Too expensive? Not buying. Too heavy and large? Nope, not buying that either.

I would go back to driving engine-swapped 80s or 90s vehicles with whatever V8 I prefer over a hybrid or EV. Heck, it wouldn't be a big deal to swap a new engine into my 2017 GT if the Coyote ever wears out. There's a great aftermarket for our cars.

They are still building brand new V8 crate engines. I don't even have to assemble it myself or go to a junkyard. I can just buy one and they'll ship it to my door.

 

[w3rkn]

I prefer to leave out the boring politics personally and I think the admin team prefers the same. So I’m only going to talk about what we can see happening now and the moves industry/government are taking to move to an EV future.

This quote, however, is a fundamental misunderstanding of how EVs are/will be used by the average consumer. We’ll be charging at home and at work the majority of the time, which reduces the demand for charging stations as infrastructure. We will, as a society, find the “arrangement” that works best to keep costs and consumption low while keeping convenience high. Americans love convenience above all else, that won’t change here.

No amount of naysaying changes the fact the EVs are coming, like it or not. The industry is moving that way. Governments are moving that way. ICE will die - eventually. Maybe in 30-40 years in the US. Probably 15-20 in Europe. But EV is the future and we can adjust or simply complain.

It’s a silly thing to argue about honestly. It’s happening. And a bunch of gasoline super-users hate it, but that’s what happens when paradigms shift I suppose.

A home charger costs thousands and it take up to 7+h to charge to full (on 240v). What about those who are in transit..? What if you just want to run up to Cabela's... and it's 55miles one way? And you still have more running around to do after lunch... and Your kids need the car for Hockey Practice at 4am..?

People hitting the charge station on the go is a must. Full stop period. At home charging is easy for overnight top-offs... but it will not sustain someone who is a suburbanite, there has to be quick chargers everywhere... yesterday!.

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