How do we save the mustang?

[9secondko]

How do you save the mustang?

Pricing. Unfortunately, Government has mandated lots of stuff saying "it will save money" and maybe it does, but when cars get very expensive, it starts to price people out of the market. Mustangs are also "summer/good day cars" in many markets, meaning the people that own them own a second car they use for their daily driver. That's okay when the average person can afford two cars for a single driver, but things have gotten MUCH tighter on the American budget. Asking someone to pay 50-60k for a "fun" car isn't going to be as easy an ask as it was 10-20 years ago. Plus, kids are saddled with lots of debt these days from college (many without doing things like doing a cost benefit analysis of their chosen major). This means people have debt that is very difficult to repay, plus housing, plus groceries (my grocery bill has easily doubled for the same food since 2020), and it's not due to kids

Environmental awareness - "cruising", going for a drive, taking a ride, etc., has gone away. Not many people are driving for fun anymore. Between congestion, traffic cameras, costs, and increased environmental awareness, the new generations don't like driving and the older generations just are not doing it as much. As a result, fewer people, at least as a percentage, are looking for "fun" cars, at least as a new vehicle

Weight - Like pricing, safety systems come at a weight cost, or the above pricing cost if engineered to be lighter. cars that used to be 3000 lbs would not be coming in at 4000 or even 4500 lbs. This means you need more power to have the same thrill

Relative fun gap - while related to environmental awareness, improved suspension, drivetrains, and frames mean that even SUVs can offer near pony-car like performance. I've even seen some people here suggest that the V-8 offered in the current mustang not be offered in the potential "Mach 4", with the 3.5 ecoboost. So how do you get people to buy a small car that's only good for 1-2 people as "fun" when they can buy a SUV that can haul 4, is almost as fast, can handle almost as well, and "runs out of speed limit" very quickly. Oh, and having that SUV as a single vehicle means you can take you and a friend, or you and your family to places you might want to see, or can now afford to visit since you only have one vehicle to pay for/insure.

SO...how do you save the mustang.

Focus on key areas
price - get the cost of an entry level mustang down. While it may lose the punchiness of acceleration, it must retain good handling (which does not mean a punishing ride). Ideally, it need to drop 2k to under 30k.. Psychologically, 29k is a much better starting number for first time new car buyers than 31k. The convertible should drop 21 bucks to 29k, and if possible try to get the GT to 39,999 as well. Dark Horse is overpriced and should be 54k and 59k for DH prem. Again, starting numbers. Maybe you boost option prices, but starting numbers are important.

Quality - Ford said they wanted to compete with the 3 series. Well, they are not close in quality, but they are in price. Quality MUST go up. creeks, rattles, groans, must not happen, gaps should be perfect.

Usability - the Mustang MUST have a sibling (name unimportant) that resides on the same platform but can have 4 doors and hold more than 2 adults/teens. This is important as young drivers turn into family drivers and want a sedan (SUVs are covered already). You want them keeping the connection to the mustang so they switch back to the mustang when they become empty nesters. The mustang must also stop "doing what mustangs do" which is crash. AWD is one of the better ways to accomplish this (yes, I know, this adds cost and weight which I railed against above), but it's either that or nanny systems that you won't be able to turn off. Personally, AWD will be a better performance gain as you can usually accelerate faster

Performance - you must have a larger gap between your SUV performance and your Mustang performance. This means making the Mustang better, not SUVs worse.

great post.

it’s why some of us have been advocating for the Mustang to take a leap in performance.

we are at a place where grandma can stomp your sports car in her suv in the way to bingo.

but those SUVs cost a lot. Unfortunately so does the mustang these days

it used to be you got a lot for a little. Now it’s kind of upside down.

ford has that glorious v8. They also have turbo tech on lock.

combine the two and we are back in business.

let everything else do the v6, I4 thing.

share as much as possible across mustangs and commoditize the engine tech with f150.

ford simply needs to build one world-beater car and commoditize the tech across the family. But offer in various states of tune with the Mustang getting the glory.

say hello to cheap mustang that blows the doors off everybody else.

starts with a smallish lighter car though. S650 or shared suv platform won’t cut it.

premium tiers like cobra can get an electrified version for greater performance and free AWD.

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[Rocket Man]

you can continue to forecast what you see as the way forward, but it will never happen in our lifetime. small changes are all we will see till the end of the gas engines. Sure there will be future performance upgrages, but at a higher cost and probably more weight. might as well ask for a 3000lb V8 for 40K. not gonna happen.stop asking you will just frustrate yourself more.

 

[Bikeman315]

you can continue to forecast what you see as the way forward, but it will never happen in our lifetime. small changes are all we will see till the end of the gas engines. Sure there will be future performance upgrages, but at a higher cost and probably more weight. might as well ask for a 3000lb V8 for 40K. not gonna happen.stop asking you will just frustrate yourself more.

Maybe Ford will do it just to shut us up.

 

[9secondko]

you can continue to forecast what you see as the way forward, but it will never happen in our lifetime. small changes are all we will see till the end of the gas engines. Sure there will be future performance upgrages, but at a higher cost and probably more weight. might as well ask for a 3000lb V8 for 40K. not gonna happen.stop asking you will just frustrate yourself more.

You can continue to be squidward, but we will see. Ford has got to get tired of failing at some point.

The only one who seems frustrated is you. Can’t seem to handle favorable ideas or optimism in general. Lighten up. Will help you enjoy life.

 

[kuribojim]

I have a question here rather than a comment. It seems to me that the biggest sticking point for the future of the Mustang is the existence of the V8. I assume that at some point, emissions regulations will make a V8 physically impossible to ship. I'm not familiar enough with the regulations to know when that will occur, but I assume it'll happen sometime before 2030.

So, my question is - on the presumption that V8s will no longer exist anywhere soon - should Ford continue to develop future Mustangs based on other powertrains? I personally think they should (it's sad to lose the V8, but sadder still to lose the Mustang itself), but I can see why many folks may believe that the Mustang and the V8 are so intrinsically linked that they are inseparable even in principle.

 

[MaddNomad]

I have a question here rather than a comment. It seems to me that the biggest sticking point for the future of the Mustang is the existence of the V8. I assume that at some point, emissions regulations will make a V8 physically impossible to ship. I'm not familiar enough with the regulations to know when that will occur, but I assume it'll happen sometime before 2030.

So, my question is - on the presumption that V8s will no longer exist anywhere soon - should Ford continue to develop future Mustangs based on other powertrains? I personally think they should (it's sad to lose the V8, but sadder still to lose the Mustang itself), but I can see why many folks may believe that the Mustang and the V8 are so intrinsically linked that they are inseparable even in principle.

Well at this point it’s one of its defining characteristics today combined with its body style, accessibility (even with price), and manual transmission. As far as sports cars go it’s in rare air now, it’s a classic formula but now it’s unique.

I’ve been looking to get back into one because it’s just a different experience from a Supra or any other European sports car.

 

[kuribojim]

Well at this point it’s one of its defining characteristics today combined with its body style, accessibility (even with price), and manual transmission. As far as sports cars go it’s in rare air now, it’s a classic formula but now it’s unique.

I’ve been looking to get back into one because it’s just a different experience from a Supra or any other European sports car.

I agree. But I'm genuinely on the fence about whether or not the Mustang name should remain alive even when the V8 dies. I could see Ford doing nothing with it for a few years, and then down the track unveiling a high performance Mustang EV; in other words, they might need to "wait" into the market is in the right mindset for such a change.

I think this EV future is inevitable, it's just a question of how car manufacturers approach it.

 

[MaddNomad]

I agree. But I'm genuinely on the fence about whether or not the Mustang name should remain alive even when the V8 dies. I could see Ford doing nothing with it for a few years, and then down the track unveiling a high performance Mustang EV; in other words, they might need to "wait" into the market is in the right mindset for such a change. Decent range, single motor in the rear, then as you go up (or option) motors front in rear with more power type thing.

I think this EV future is inevitable, it's just a question of how car manufacturers approach it.

I get what you’re saying. You could still do a Mustang you would just have to lean on the body style then. It’s like the situation with the Mach E, if it were a EV coupe I don’t think anyone would’ve been as upset. The Mach E in current form only shares some styling cues and a badge with the Mustang. Body style is one of its main foundations, It’s what inspired the pony segment.

The selling point if the whole world went EV would be the Mustang being this beautiful, affordable EV coupe that you could get with higher levels of performance and aero. Basically going back to the original idea for it. Single motor in the rear, but you can option one for front and rear.

 

[9secondko]

the v8 only goes away if and when we allow the draconian dictator soy types to get some power.

it’s not some inevitable thing or some goal.

there are ways of managing emissions not even in mass production right now. There’s lots of room to move forward. It’s all a bunch of lies. All the v8s in the world don’t pollute nearly as much as the diesel engines. And those aren’t going anywhere. So it’s not about emissions. It’s about an industry of control.

in the USA at least, we are seeing a major rejection of all the anti-v8, anti-fossil fuel ideologies that have been coddled along the last 5 years or so.

I’m sure we will see an ev mustang, an ICE mustang, and a hybrid. But the new tech v8 will be there.

it’s the ultimate American engine.

we are seeing dodge and GM get back into fresh new v8 development. They won’t do that for just another 5 years of use. and ford won’t be far behind.

 

[Bikeman315]

I agree. But I'm genuinely on the fence about whether or not the Mustang name should remain alive even when the V8 dies. I could see Ford doing nothing with it for a few years, and then down the track unveiling a high performance Mustang EV; in other words, they might need to "wait" into the market is in the right mindset for such a change.

I think this EV future is inevitable, it's just a question of how car manufacturers approach it.

My wife’s 1964 1/2 Mustang convertible had the straight six in it. Mustangs throughout history have had four and six cylinder engines. Although there is nothing better than the sound of a powerful V8, it alone does not define the Mustang. Plenty of folks with S550/650 Ecoboost’s would agree with me.

 

[roadpilot]

My wife’s 1964 1/2 Mustang convertible had the straight six in it. Mustangs throughout history have had four and six cylinder engines. Although there is nothing better than the sound of a powerful V8, it alone does not define the Mustang. Plenty of folks with S550/650 Ecoboost’s would agree with me.

Mustangs have had V8 engines in them since 1965. The early inline 6s were popular with women. The 4 cylinders only came about because of the late 70s/early 80s energy crisis.

Nothing says Mustang engine like a 289 Hi-Po, a 429 Boss, a 428 Cobra Jet, a 351 Cleveland, a Boss 302, or a 5.0 Coyote.

The Mustang vs Camaro vs Challenger/Barracuda wars didn't happen over a straight 6 or 4 cylinder.

 

[Gregs24]

Mustangs just got at least $3k more expensive today!

 

[Stonehauler]

Eventually, the ICE goes away. Yes, battery tech and charging infrastructure is going to be critical to that, but batteries WILL get cheaper and lighter, and faster charging. The tech is already in development and we will learn and engineer solutions. Yes, some might argue that it's the V8, but in reality, it's the performance that matters. If you had an I4 that gave me 800 HP and 850 Ft-Lbs of torque between 2500 and 7000 RPM, I would wave goodbye to that V8 if it only had 500/395. Especially with AWD.

With an electric, you can have great performance, but battery tech does need to improve as it's not the motors holding back adoption, but the batteries and charging.

WHEN the tech gets there, we will all be scrambling for EV tech.

 

[Bikeman315]

Kill the ecoboost.

It's time to get off whatever drugs you are on.

 

[Bikeman315]

Mustangs have had V8 engines in them since 1965. The early inline 6s were popular with women. The 4 cylinders only came about because of the late 70s/early 80s energy crisis.

Nothing says Mustang engine like a 289 Hi-Po, a 429 Boss, a 428 Cobra Jet, a 351 Cleveland, a Boss 302, or a 5.0 Coyote.

The Mustang vs Camaro vs Challenger/Barracuda wars didn't happen over a straight 6 or 4 cylinder.

Agreed but this 2025, not 1970. We either adapt or lose. I'd hate for the V8 to go away, but what would worse is losing the Mustang entirely. Win the battle, lose the war is no ones motto.

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