Ford doubles down on EV future

[Gregs24]

From 50 percent to 20 percent is an incredible drop in growth for what was supposed to be the majority in sales already.

Saturation will happen in the next couple years. Growth will stop, but there will be enough demand to continue investing in both evs and ice.

Not sure where the 'it was supposed to be the majority already' comes from globally?

Globally no, although in some places EV sales are over 50% of cars sold now. It is 95% in Norway, 60% in Sweden, over 50% in China (a HUGE market).

Nowhere near saturation in other countries well behind those.

Seriously the US (mostly) and Middle East are HUGE outliers now.

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[Mustang1987]

How about a little proof to go along with your unfounded statement.

Fixed it for you....
Most people on high performance ICE forums DO NOT like EVs.

I think when he says "most people don't like EVs", he means most people aren't buying EVs.

 

[Gregs24]

I think when he says "most people don't like EVs", he means most people aren't buying EVs.

Which as I have pointed out is not entirely true either.

Pedantically ICE sales are bigger than EV sales but I know which area I would put my money in as the ratio is changing pretty fast

 

[Mustang1987]

Which as I have pointed out is not entirely true either.

Pedantically ICE sales are bigger than EV sales but I know which area I would put my money in as the ratio is changing pretty fast

To show you how much EVs are slowing in the US, in 2023, growth was 50% higher than 2022, but growth in 2024 was only 7.3% higher than the previous year.

Which means EVs were basically flat year to year in the US.

 

[Gregs24]

To show you how much EVs are slowing in the US, in 2023, growth was 50% higher than 2022, but growth in 2024 was only 7.3% higher than the previous year.

Which means EVs were basically flat year to year in the US.

US - I'm clearly talking global. Global company that sells more cars outside the US than in the US.

 

[Mustang1987]

US - I'm clearly talking global. Global company that sells more cars outside the US than in the US.

Yes, we already mentioned EV growth more than halved globally from the previous year which is more than anyone thought possible. And I added in the US that growth is pretty much flat from the previous year.

 

[Alan Applegate]

The US is not China or Sweden. While the numbers look good on paper, there are a few underlying factors we mustn't forget about.

Speaking of just the US; In order to provide enough electrical infrastructure to support to a 10% EV market, will cost US taxpayers over $4 trillion. This figure doesn't include the additional generator capacity. We haven't built a power plant in the US for over 20 years. And it doesn't include the installation nor cost of purchasing charging stations.

We also need to remember we've been in the car and truck business for well over 100 years. Pipelines, tanker trucks, service stations, and to a lessor degree oil tanker have been used to give us the energy—gasoline that is. So the plan would need to be, the hardware for all of the above would have to be installed and ready. How long do you think that would take?

Further, China produces the vast majority of its energy by burning coal. They're also doing the requisite mining using diesel-powered machinery. The net result is, their so-called reduced carbon foot print is a negative number!

Lastly, if we could reduce all of the green house gasses produced by man's contribution to a flat zero percent, the figure would still be just ≈6% of the total tonnage produced by man and the earth itself, primarily by volcanic action in the latter sense.

I think we all should be a bit less political and a bit more pragmatic!

 

[Gregs24]

The US is not China or Sweden. While the numbers look good on paper, there are a few underlying factors we mustn't forget about.

Speaking of just the US; In order to provide enough electrical infrastructure to support to a 10% EV market, will cost US taxpayers over $4 trillion. This figure doesn't include the additional generator capacity. We haven't built a power plant in the US for over 20 years. And it doesn't include the installation nor cost of purchasing charging stations.

We also need to remember we've been in the car and truck business for well over 100 years. Pipelines, tanker trucks, service stations, and to a lessor degree oil tanker have been used to give us the energy—gasoline that is. So the plan would need to be, the hardware for all of the above would have to be installed and ready. How long do you think that would take?

Further, China produces the vast majority of its energy by burning coal. They're also doing the requisite mining using diesel-powered machinery. The net result is, their so-called reduced carbon foot print is a negative number!

Lastly, if we could reduce all of the green house gasses produced by man's contribution to a flat zero percent, the figure would still be just ≈6% of the total tonnage produced by man and the earth itself, primarily by volcanic action in the latter sense.

I think we all should be a bit less political and a bit more pragmatic!

Your lack of infrastructure investment in the US is a huge problem and one of the the reasons you have had 'cheap' energy for so long. Cheap for a reason.

Don't underestimate the ability of China to change rapidly, it is already at 35% of electricity generation by renewables. Local pollution is also a major factor for EV adoption there.

Your understanding of greenhouse gasses is seriously flawed and I seriously hope you are not casually trying to suggest those greenhouse gasses are not a problem! However this is not the place for that discussion.

 

[A10devil]

Your lack of infrastructure investment in the US is a huge problem and one of the the reasons you have had 'cheap' energy for so long. Cheap for a reason.

Don't underestimate the ability of China to change rapidly, it is already at 35% of electricity generation by renewables. Local pollution is also a major factor for EV adoption there.

Your understanding of greenhouse gasses is seriously flawed and I seriously hope you are not casually trying to suggest those greenhouse gasses are not a problem! However this is not the place for that discussion.

Your posts reek of European arrogance. Keep that bias in mind when responding to anyone on this forum.

 

[Gregs24]

Your posts reek of European arrogance. Keep that bias in mind when responding to anyone on this forum.

Pretty sure I wasn't talking to you so keep your offended responses for somebody else

 

[smurfslayer]

Those issues are not down to it being an EV of course, just poor build quality which can affect any vehicle.

Well... there’s also the increased wear and tear on components. Tires and suspension wear out A LOT faster than a much lighter ICE vehicles. I had a buddy go from Raptor to f150 powerbooost to lightning ( NOT LIGHTENING) back to Raptor. It was ok for commuting at low speed, but at highway / motorway speed it’s an inefficient brick that runs out of range quickly.
It does have its share of issues unique to the lightning but it’s not simply the lack of quality, it’s really that it’s simply an inconvenient vehicle to own.

Your estimate doesn't fit with reality. Plenty of places well in excess of that now both in terms of vehicles on the road and vehicle sales (EV). US is very much behind compared to the rest of the world in adoption, but then even parts of the US are ahead of others.

There were 88 million cars sold in the world last year of which 17 million were EV - that's 20% of sales and rising. No wonder car makers are investing in EVs - they do realise where they need to invest very clearly.

Here is one example why - and don’t take this personally, it’s not meant that way
you just don’t get it.

Your country fits -- inside of the STATE of Texas 2.8 times. How long a trip is it from lands end to John OGroats? 838 miles if the ’net is to be believed. That’s quaint.

A country as big as the just the continental US is necessarily going to be slower to adopt entirely new infrastructure; supplying fuel - whether it’s dino fuel or electricity across vast swaths of the earth is a challenge that is easy to dismiss from afar when you don’t have to worry about the scale we do.

I haven’t been to the UK in about 12(?) years and while you do have some rural areas, we have a lot.
One reason we don’t dig on EV’s in western states that are far less overcrowded than our east coast is the higher speeds, lower range of the EV at speed and greater distance between charging stations. Put weight or cargo into the equation, which we have to account for out in the middle & west of the country, range plummets even further.

I can’t speak to the effect of temperature personally, so I’ll leave that variable alone.

US - I'm clearly talking global. Global company that sells more cars outside the US than in the US.

A US company that cannot afford to ignore the US market.

Your posts reek of European arrogance. Keep that bias in mind when responding to anyone on this forum.

I think arrogance is unfair, it’s ignorance - @Gregs24 I’m not saying you’re stupid, dumb or anything like that but you’re preaching about topics that fit well in a European and UK market but simply does not translate to scale.
Not without government mandate, which isn’t going to happen in a somewhat free, non totalitarian country because the technology is too inconvenient and improving at a crawl; slightly faster than ICE tech is improving power, economy and efficiency wise anyway. At some point electric vehicles will improve at a pace that is causing the product to be more palatable to the consumer.

It works for you, so it HAS to work for everyone else. We all do this.

When the range gets on par with a comparable ICE vehicle, more consumers will come. When more consumers come, there will be more of an impetus to upscale the infrastructure. When we have to rationalize our choices to ourselves, it’s probably not a smart choice and right now most of the US consumer base aren’t willing to do the mental gymnastics to rationalize the EV.

Now, when they give us a 2 door Mustang, AWD, 2 second 0-60, respectable top speed, 350-ish mile range, not a huge increase in weight, good handling, there will be buyers.

 

[Mustang1987]

A US company that cannot afford to ignore the US market.

Exactly. The US is Fords largest market. The US consumer will mostly dictate what Ford does. Not Sweden lol

And when gas becomes really cheap really soon, US consumers won't see many advantages to EVs. EVs were already flat on sales year to year. Now imagine when gas gets cheap and EV tax credits disappear.

 

[Bikeman315]

Your posts reek of European arrogance. Keep that bias in mind when responding to anyone on this forum.

Yup, right up there with our American arrogance. This is definitely something in which we are number one.

Also @Gregs24 is not European, he is British.

 

[Wiley Marmot]

Well that isn't quite true is it?

Try this example - you drive on the left in the US and stop at red lights (mostly). They are laws that your government enforce via the Police. I assume you are happy with that? It will affect your financial situation if you fail to comply via fines etc. So the reality is that living in a democracy the majority decide the laws and the police enforce them, red lights, smoking bans, etc. As an individual you don't get to choose which laws you obey (you cannot just stick to the ones you like), that is how a civilised society works.

Well sir; you ran around that bush (government market manipulation and policy mandates to achieve policy ends; NOT achievable without them) with a great deal of agility and alacrity!

As other's have correctly noted; we are a Constitutional Republic NOT a democracy.

That 30 years in Government? Law Enforcement, Criminal Justice, Emergency Management, High Risk Security. I WAS the police.

 

[smurfslayer]

Also @Gregs24 is not European, he is British.

Not all whiskey is bourbon, but all bourbon is whiskey

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