Whipple vs Roush - Which supercharger is better?

[kagemusha2662]

I wonder if the underhood packaging limitations on the Mustang keep ford from putting something like the 3.5 Eco in the Mustang. They should have no problem making to ~ 450-500hp, they are what, 400 in the F150 and 650 in the Ford GT?

3.5 eco crate engine is like 1/3 to 1/4 the price of a GT500 engine

Maybe, but why do that from Ford's perspective when they have a bulletproof V8 Coyote that will make that hp easily? I also believe TT is more useful with smaller engines, and the coyote is too big for an efficient + powerful twin turbo (think EPA MPG requirements, they can't roll out a TT Mustang that makes 10 MPG). The discussion is about TT vs supercharger for the v8 coyote. I think from Ford's perspective, the cost of building up the coyote to handle a supercharger vs building it up to handle TT power is driving the decision for them to put superchargers on their extreme cars like the GT500 or the GTD. There is also the discussion that muscle cars, and specifically v8 muscle cars, are tied to the supercharger due to history. It's in the DNA, and I don't see that changing anytime soon, if ever

Sponsored

 

[kagemusha2662]

I’ve still year to see 1 single roush (non shop) car make a pass.

I’ve only seen Brent’s passes, need to see independent verification.
Matter of fact yours is the only public kit I’ve seen yet.

to be fair, the roush kit just started marketing themselves and putting up orders a couple months ago, while the whipple kits have been out in non carb states for almost a year

 

[robvas]

No, most are aftermarket tuned with fuel systems and better shift points.

I am curious to see the 2024 with the roush tunes performance on customer cars in the real world.

if tuning weren’t an issue, it wouldn’t matter

Would you say the stage 2 whipple tune is more comparable to an aftermarket tune than the old whipple tunes were?

I remember tuning companies showing a 40hp gain over the whipple tune but that was on the 2.9's

 

[Q6543]

Not 100% sure, I guess we’ll know if/when we get unlocked if stage 2 cars and they pick up some HP/MPH.
great point and question though

 

[robvas]

Maybe, but why do that from Ford's perspective when they have a bulletproof V8 Coyote that will make that hp easily? I also believe TT is more useful with smaller engines, and the coyote is too big for an efficient + powerful twin turbo (think EPA MPG requirements, they can't roll out a TT Mustang that makes 10 MPG). The discussion is about TT vs supercharger for the v8 coyote. I think from Ford's perspective, the cost of building up the coyote to handle a supercharger vs building it up to handle TT power is driving the decision for them to put superchargers on their extreme cars like the GT500 or the GTD. There is also the discussion that muscle cars, and specifically v8 muscle cars, are tied to the supercharger due to history. It's in the DNA, and I don't see that changing anytime soon, if ever

I'm sure they could just slap it on the GT500 engine. It'd hold it. But that would cost a ton of money to develop blah blah and they already have the supercharger like you said

And yes, the existing supercharged engine would probably be preferred by 90% of buyers

 

[kagemusha2662]

I'm sure they could just slap it on the GT500 engine. It'd hold it. But that would cost a ton of money to develop blah blah and they already have the supercharger like you said

And yes, the existing supercharged engine would probably be preferred by 90% of buyers

Potentially, but again coyote/mustang v8 engines are pretty high displacement. TT benefits probably don't outweigh the costs on development/build side. Doing some research on twin turbo v8 engines and I can only find BMW M5, however the displacement on those engines is 4.4 vs 5.0 and 5.2 on coyote and predator. And skimming through the BMW forums for the M5, I see a lot of people already complaining about reliability/blown engines, so I'd imagine TT on a v8 is not as reliable as people would think. In the aftermarket, adding a TT is fine, as long as you get a good tune and maintain it properly. But for the people who buy a production car, i'd go so far as to say the majority of them do not keep up with scheduled oil changes or maintenance schedules.

 

[Q6543]

I work for ford, back in 2018 we had a mule TT mustang… 3.5v6TT/10R80… it absolutely blew the doors off the gt350 from what I was told.

that was shelved and never made it to market.

point is, you’re 10x more likely to get a v6TT mustang than a TT5.0. And are you willing to pay big bucks for it??

 

[robvas]

Production TT V8:

C8 ZR1 (coming soon)
Cadillac Blackwing
BMW N63
AMG 4.0
Audi S7/S8

Probably a few others? Not counting things like the Shelby Redye or Lingenfelter/Callaway Corvettes

 

[kagemusha2662]

Production TT V8:

C8 ZR1 (coming soon)
Cadillac Blackwing
BMW N63
AMG 4.0
Audi S7/S8

Probably a few others? Not counting things like the Shelby Redye or Lingenfelter/Callaway Corvettes

Isn't the blackwing supercharged?
The s7 is TT V6
S8 is TT V8 and is 123k. Supercharged v8 offers better power for $$
The rest are significantly priced high/higher than a supercharged v8 would be. Again, it's all about cost

 

[Wiley Marmot]

I really wanted to go with a Whipple, but sadly budgetary considerations intervened and I decided to go with a Redneck Performance set up.

 

[broncoboy22]

I’ve still year to see 1 single roush (non shop) car make a pass.

I’ve only seen Brent’s passes, need to see independent verification.
Matter of fact yours is the only public kit I’ve seen yet.

At least brenspeed is independent to Roush and whipple, but your point stands

I think most YouTubers hopped on Whipple since it was ready to go much earlier. Regular Joe’s are just now getting the roush’s

 

[broncoboy22]

I work for ford, back in 2018 we had a mule TT mustang… 3.5v6TT/10R80… it absolutely blew the doors off the gt350 from what I was told.

that was shelved and never made it to market.

point is, you’re 10x more likely to get a v6TT mustang than a TT5.0. And are you willing to pay big bucks for it??

If the choice is TTV6 vs SCV8 I’ll take the V8 even if it’s slower

 

[Hasler74]

I just wish the whipple kept the dual throttle bodies, or the Roush didn’t only come in Lego red.

 

[kagemusha2662]

I just wish the whipple kept the dual throttle bodies, or the Roush didn’t only come in Lego red.

Get powder coat online for like 15 bucks and spray paint it whatever color you want

 

[9secondko]

they can't because twin turbos on a production car can never maintain the reliability that supercharged cars have. also the cost of building up an engine to hold the power of a twin turbo would push the price of the car up to insane costs. so problem is mostly around cost. If they were to go all out on a mustang with a twin turbo application, id venture to guess the cost of the car would be in the 150k+ range price. Not as simple as just slapping it on like most people do with their cars in the aftermarket.

laughable. The Europeans have been doing it for a while and ford does it with other engines. Turbo diesels have been doing this a. Long time. Done right, turbos will actually cause the engine to last longer since they cause less drag on the engine. Turbos are very economical as well. There’s a reason ecoboost has been so accessible financially. Meanwhile the supercharged gt500 has skyrocketed in price. None of those arguments hold water.

Sponsored